Ditching the Car

[2426255]

19 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Rural transport in the North is abysmal, used to be slightly better when the post vans were available. I've a friend in Drumnadrochit, 14 miles from Inverness and a sizeable settlement full of commuters, who gave up his car. Now to go to many Clach away games he has to hitchhike into Inverness before the first bus, and usually pay £45 for a taxi home, the last bus on a Saturday leaving around 6pm. He's in his sixties btw.

Fair play, even if it's pishing it down? I guess owning the car was getting too expensive if he got rid of it under those circumstances?

[Alert Mongoose]

I've been toying with this idea for a while. Use the bus more and more but still use the car for holidays/longer day trips.

The reality is that public transport won't improve until more people use it (becomes more cost effective/greater pressure from users (ie voters) for improvement).  The further reality is, as evidenced many times over, humans will take the easy route out unless you force them to.

I appreciate that more rural areas get a raw deal in respect of public transport but we do need to take some responsibility for our actions - loads of people like moving to the countryside but rarely consider the suitability of that for their own needs (young family etc).

I'm not advocating we all live in cities - after all the premise of the original Royal Mail was that (despite the actual cost) you would be charged the same irrespective where in the UK you are sending a letter to do. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of us to set a funding arrangement that tries to do the same for public transport.

ETA - in short, like many others, I'll probably moan a bit as my option to have and use a car is eroded but will accept the bigger picture around it.

Edited March 4 by Alert Mongoose

[alta-pete]

5 hours ago, GordonS said:

By definition the poor don't own cars, so they benefit the most as it becomes safer and easier to walk and cycle, and buses are less delayed by cars.

Should we not instead focus on giving people the opportunity to be less poor rather than making it less inconvenient to be poor?

[Alert Mongoose]

Just now, alta-pete said:

Should we not instead focus on giving people the opportunity to be less poor rather than making it less inconvenient to be poor?

Good luck with that while those in power have a vested interest in doing the exact opposite.

[alta-pete]

Just now, Alert Mongoose said:

Good luck with that while those in power have a vested interest in doing the exact opposite.

My stab was that those in power, 'the rich', are pricing the pesky poor people off the road under the guise of green/active travel credentials. Will we see politcians of any hue mobilise onto their bikes or on buses. No, I didn't think so.  

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Should we not instead focus on giving people the opportunity to be less poor rather than making it less inconvenient to be poor?

Legalise joyriding, it's just a more inclusive form of car pooling.

[GHF-23]

I don't really see the drama from a policy point of view to be honest, it's very obviously sensible that:
1 - people who live in urbanised areas should be heavily disincentivised from owning cars, unless due to issues such as disability. Urban streets should be for public transport, business deliveries, and wherever possible pedestrianised. If people live in city centres then maybe they can buy a permit which allows them X number of stops in a loading bay near their home on a monthly basis, that seems fair. Other than that they can just park on the road in suburban areas and walk/public transport into the urban area. It's important to provide people in suburban areas something to discuss anyway, as there are only so many times you can complain about kids playing football in the street, the bin schedule and the fact your new build house is falling apart 3 years after being built. 

2 - it is very obviously a completely different kettle of fish to own a car in rural or disconnected areas, although public transport must be hugely improved in those areas in any case.

Edited March 4 by GHF-23

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, strichener said:

"the people of Scotland"??

It isn't me that's misleading here.  The article is not about Scottish attitudes, it is representative of some of the areas with the best public transport infrastructure.

As city dwellers are so keen to walk and cycle, how about we remove the public transport subsidies in these areas and allocate it to the out of city settlements that can't get to their work by starting time using public transport.

You're happy to accuse others of being dishonest for doing the same thing you did here.

The article is clear that it's about the 7 cities, just as my post with the link was. I can't be arsed with bickering about it.

[AUcal]

I don't drive and growing up no one in the house did. Never found it to be an issue, although we always were / I am now situated relatively close to the town/city centres, so easy access of train and bus if need be. Clearly a biased viewpoint, but I always thought that some folk make a bit too much out of how difficult it would be to ditch the car.

However, my guess would be that once you are accustomed to the convenience of the car everything gets adjusted accordingly distance wise, i.e more willing to go to a further away shop, more willing to have the kids in activities/clubs that aren't in your immediate vicinity, don't mind being further away from extended family (although that's not necessarily a bad thing in a lot of cases) etc. The difficulty of giving it up makes more sense from that point of view.

A system based on privatised public transport is a b*****d, and very rarely does anything to discourage private car use. Outside of Edinburgh (very good) and Glasgow (decent, but not as good), bus provision in this country is fucking shite.

Personally, i'd get right behind gradually increasing measures that curb private car use in favour of promoting and properly funding better public transport use. Overnight sweeping changes will do more harm than good (initially anyway) in a socioeconomic sense, but theres a lot of good to be found in folk ditching the car.

Also, people that fundamentally "don't like" or "don't want" public transport are weirdos.

Anyway, on the original post. Aye go for it, ditch the car if you can.

[strichener]

 

 

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

You're happy to accuse others of being dishonest for doing the same thing you did here.

The article is clear that it's about the 7 cities, just as my post with the link was. I can't be arsed with bickering about it.

You'll have to enlighten me here.  I have quoted directly from the linked article.  I haven't removed any qualifiers or added anything extra.  It is a shite article from a vested interest that in no way represents Scotland as it claims.

I am someone that walks many miles every day of the week.  Not in place of alternative transport but to give me and the dog exercise.  Do I fall into the 58%?  

[welshbairn]

The 'active travel' plans for Inverness are hugely unpopular, and just seem to be about shifting traffic from the City centre to suburban streets and choking off trade from retailers, handing it over to Amazon, supermarket deliveries and out of town shopping. The Parisian cafe style experience might work for 2 weeks in the year.

Edited March 4 by welshbairn

[Ross.]

Public transport in Scotland is generally fucking terrible compared to where I am. If I ever moved back I would absolutely be using a car regularly. The busses in Edinburgh are probably the only exception to that, but I’d prefer not to live there.

[highlandmac]

21 hours ago, GordonS said:

By definition the poor don't own cars, so they benefit the most as it becomes safer and easier to walk and cycle, and buses are less delayed by cars.

In a first world country plenty of the less well off have cars,that doesn't make them rich ,relative to where they live.

I work shifts&live in an established,urban area.its impossible for me to use public transport to get to&from it and i'm not especially confident in the brave new world they're wanting that the public transport infrastructure will be improved in any way.

[gannonball]

I admire anyone trying this in Scotland as public transport is generally shit and quite expensive. I try and use my motor less where possible, have got myself an e-bike but tbh I rarely use it come October to March. 

[TheScarf]

19 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Rural transport in the North is abysmal, used to be slightly better when the post vans were available. I've a friend in Drumnadrochit, 14 miles from Inverness and a sizeable settlement full of commuters, who gave up his car. Now to go to many Clach away games he has to hitchhike into Inverness before the first bus, and usually pay £45 for a taxi home, the last bus on a Saturday leaving around 6pm. He's in his sixties btw.

Tell him to get a lift in with @HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows

[Molotov]

9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I admire anyone trying this in Scotland as public transport is generally shit and quite expensive. 

It’s a bit like football in this country. Especially if you follow a big brand.  

Joking aside I’ve gradually ditched my car and motorbike usage over recent years and started using buses and trains more often. I rarely use taxis unless I’m heading early doors to the airport. 

It takes me back to when I never owned a car over 40 years ago. 

Difference is that bus and train times are always available on my phone so it’s much easier to plan ahead.

I also am a bit more “efficient” in my shopping trips. 

I’m certainly much fitter as a result of less car journeys and less inclined to get stressed out with “cnuts on the road”. 

The bank balance has definitely improved as a result.

I’ve not got a bicycle or e-bike. I’d probably forget where I left it.  

I’m not sure I’d go back to buying another car or motorcycle now. 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 hours ago, highlandmac said:

In a first world country plenty of the less well off have cars,that doesn't make them rich ,relative to where they live.

I work shifts&live in an established,urban area.its impossible for me to use public transport to get to&from it and i'm not especially confident in the brave new world they're wanting that the public transport infrastructure will be improved in any way.

Exactly, I'm not a rich man. I economize on insurance, road tax and basic maintenance.

[10menwent2mow]

Public transport anywhere north of Aberdeen is utterly dreadful and painfully expensive. 

I don't drive and head up from Aberdeen to Cullen a few times a year. If I'm going on my own I normally get a lift from my parents out to Newmachar from Bridge of Don (10-15 mins in the car) then jump on the 35 bus from there. Total journey time is around 2hr 30 from leaving BoD to arrival in Cullen. 

Folks are on holiday at the moment and I headed up last week. About 30 mins on the First bus from BoD to town then 2hr 45 on the 35, probably over 3hr 45 from door to door allowing for making sure I was on time. Total cost of journey was £31.40 (£3.05 x2 for First and £25.30 return to Cullen) 

The same journey in the car would've taken around an hour each way and according to a fuel calculator, have cost about £13 in total, there and back. 

Was £6 for a single from Buckie to Cullen as well while up there. 

[Buttocks Brown]

On 04/03/2024 at 12:28, 2426255 said:

If you own a car, it's getting worse/will get worse. The reason is to try and encourage you to adopt alternative forms of transport. Whether your life will improve if you don't have a car is debatable, but things will definitely get worse for people who like to own cars over the coming decades - at least those who live in cities, maybe towns as well in my opinion.

Worth mentioning demographics too: 30 years ago, 50% of 17-20 year olds had a driving licence. Now, it's 25%. The recent surge in insurance premiums will dent that further.

It seems inevitable that public transport will improve as an increasing number of people will be using it. For the time being though, politicians are more interested in appeasing older motorists to gain votes.

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Buttocks Brown said:

Worth mentioning demographics too: 30 years ago, 50% of 17-20 year olds had a driving licence. Now, it's 25%. The recent surge in insurance premiums will dent that further.

It seems inevitable that public transport will improve as an increasing number of people will be using it. For the time being though, politicians are more interested in appeasing older motorists to gain votes.

I like your optimism. Less choice doesn't usually drive standards up.