Chasing VAR out of Scotland

[KirkieRR]

Think this might be counter-productive. VAR isn't aimed at people who go to games, the P&B demographic, but armchair telly viewers. Of the English Moneybags League, mainly, but of course we've copied them.

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Think this might be counter-productive. VAR isn't aimed at people who go to games, the P&B demographic, but armchair telly viewers. Of the English Moneybags League, mainly, but of course we've copied them.

Armchair fans aren't where clubs make their money. They can pick their own road now, and deal with their own consequences, as I think fans of every club are very close to drawing their line in the sand and forcing the choice.

[KingswellsRed]

No doubt  the response will be to “tweak” VAR but I honestly don’t think I have seen a version of it anywhere in the world which fans will consider ok.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Email sent to St Johnstone, with reference to the Motherwell statement. 

Will try and message the BBC on my lunch break.

Email reply saying the email has been passed on and they'll get in touch next week to discuss further.

So at least St Johnstone also seem willing to discuss the situation. 

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

1 hour ago, KingswellsRed said:

No doubt  the response will be to “tweak” VAR but I honestly don’t think I have seen a version of it anywhere in the world which fans will consider ok.

Yup.

In the same way they told us the problems at the start were "teething problems" that are still continuing and arguably worse now. 

[VincentGuerin]

17 minutes ago, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

Yup.

In the same way they told us the problems at the start were "teething problems" that are still continuing and arguably worse now. 

This is another thing to underline in emails.

Not only was it introduced with no consultation and has there been no consultation after 18 months, but the issues we were assured were "teething problems" still exist after 18 months of use in Scotland, and, let's not forget, eight years of use in general in other leagues and cups, including the very highest level of the game. There is absolutely no excuse for it at this stage.

Now, the SFA themselves acknowledge that VAR processes are not good, yet none of this is enough seemingly to stop charging people a fortune to watch this shite ruin a game. A pause on VAR would be entirely appropriate at this stage.

Edited March 21 by VincentGuerin

[HibsFan]

And hot on the heels, I’ve sent this off to the Sportsound email address found online:

Dear all,

Long-time listener of the Scottish Football Podcast but it’s my first time writing in.

I wanted to get the panel’s thoughts on the recent statement made by Motherwell regarding VAR, which can be found here:

 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/03/20/statement-on-var-decision-against-aberdeen/

 

The statement talks at length about a recent decision that went against the club against Aberdeen, but that isn’t what I’d like to discuss. Frankly, I’ve heard enough chat on specific VAR decisions to last a lifetime.

 

What caught my attention was the following:

Spoiler

“We are aware from the recent SFA announcement and from interaction with SPFL officials that a full review of VAR is ongoing and we have had input into that process. There are many potential consequences of some of these decisions, but we are most concerned that the inconsistency of decision making, regular lengthy VAR interventions during most games and lack of any clarity on why decisions have been made, is having a serious impact on fans’ enjoyment of the game.

The feedback we receive from our own fans on VAR is almost entirely negative and, if given a choice, we believe most would vote to no longer have it in use. It’s actually not easy to find anyone who either participates in football or watches it who is happy with the current position.”

This is the first time that I’ve seen a club in Scotland release a statement about VAR that acknowledges match-going fans. When VAR was being voted on up here, almost zero fans were consulted at any of the clubs about this huge change to the way we watch football.

Why are the supporters, the people who keep Scottish football going  being ignored in the consideration of whether VAR is ‘worth it’? Why has it been decided that the only thing that matters is “getting the right decision”? Something which is an impossible goal in a sport as subjective as football.

I know that I am not alone in feeling this way, and I guess my question for the podcast is: when can we expect fans in Scotland, who we are repeatedly told are the lifeblood of the game, going to be given a say in whether they want their matchday experience significantly altered by VAR?

 

Many thanks,

Edited March 21 by HibsFan

[RandomGuy.]

@HibsFan do you have that email address handy?

[VincentGuerin]

10 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

And hot on the heels, I’ve sent this off to the Sportsound email address found online:

Dear all,

Long-time listener of the Scottish Football Podcast but it’s my first time writing in.

I wanted to get the panel’s thoughts on the recent statement made by Motherwell regarding VAR, which can be found here:

 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/03/20/statement-on-var-decision-against-aberdeen/

 

The statement talks at length about a recent decision that went against the club against Aberdeen, but that isn’t what I’d like to discuss. Frankly, I’ve heard enough chat on specific VAR decisions to last a lifetime.

 

What caught my attention was the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

“We are aware from the recent SFA announcement and from interaction with SPFL officials that a full review of VAR is ongoing and we have had input into that process. There are many potential consequences of some of these decisions, but we are most concerned that the inconsistency of decision making, regular lengthy VAR interventions during most games and lack of any clarity on why decisions have been made, is having a serious impact on fans’ enjoyment of the game.

The feedback we receive from our own fans on VAR is almost entirely negative and, if given a choice, we believe most would vote to no longer have it in use. It’s actually not easy to find anyone who either participates in football or watches it who is happy with the current position.”

This is the first time that I’ve seen a club in Scotland release a statement about VAR that acknowledges match-going fans. When VAR was being voted on up here, almost zero fans were consulted at any of the clubs about this huge change to the way we watch football.

Why are the supporters, the people who keep Scottish football going  being ignored in the consideration of whether VAR is ‘worth it’? Why has it been decided that the only thing that matters is “getting the right decision”? Something which is an impossible goal in a sport as subjective as football.

I know that I am not alone in feeling this way, and I guess my question for the podcast is: when can we expect fans in Scotland, who we are repeatedly told are the lifeblood of the game, going to be given a say in whether they want their matchday experience significantly altered by VAR?

 

Many thanks,

Sent something similar to Sportsound.

I'd encourage anyone wavering to email them this week. They take very little encouragement to discuss VAR, it's an international week, and they love outrage. It's also very topical with the Maxwell/Crawford statement and Motherwell's statement.

There's a very good chance they run with this.

Edited March 21 by VincentGuerin

[Dons_1988]

If someone shares the email address I’ll email them too. I’ve just emailed AFC again. 

[VincentGuerin]

I used sportsound@bbc.co.uk

[velo army]

Well played @HibsFan. My only issue with your email is the bit about "I'd like to hear the panel's thoughts". I can't think of anything I'd like to hear less than Michael Stewart's thoughts on anything, let alone VAR.

I dropped the ball on my end but will send out an email to TJF today and one to Sportsound also today. I do believe, as per @VincentGuerin's frequent proselytising, that if we all add our bit we can precipitate meaningful change.

 

[velo army]

Ken we're mostly a bunch of aul' cvnts, but I think we should think of a hashtag which is quite catchy. The campaign needs a name to go viral so that it isn't just a few internet da's yelling at clouds. 

[craigkillie]

4 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Good on Motherwell, a very decent letter.

Will be instructive to see what the SFA actually do or say about this - probably dock Well 6 points for being lippy.

What would you expect the SFA to do? They are running the system the clubs voted for them to run.

The only impetus for change comes from the clubs who wanted VAR and who almost unianimously voted it through. The SFA and their officials may have also wanted it, but had the clubs not agreed to it and specifically agreed to pay for it then it would never have happened.

Edited March 21 by craigkillie

[Dons_1988]

Sportsound emailed too 

[HibsFan]

19 minutes ago, velo army said:

Well played @HibsFan. My only issue with your email is the bit about "I'd like to hear the panel's thoughts". I can't think of anything I'd like to hear less than Michael Stewart's thoughts on anything, let alone VAR.

Haha, I agree but felt like I had to massage their egos a bit and play the game.

Spoiler

Long-time listener would also be stretching the truth a little.

 

[Leith Green]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

What would you expect the SFA to do? They are running the system the clubs voted for them to run.

The only impetus for change comes from the clubs who wanted VAR and who almost unianimously voted it through. The SFA and their officials may have also wanted it, but had the clubs not agreed to it and specifically agreed to pay for it then it would never have happened.

Probably nothing, as you say it's on the clubs.

But as the SFA are having a review, Motherwell email may be helpful.

Then again, it's Scottish football, so maybe not.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Haha, I agree but felt like I had to massage their egos a bit and play the game.

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Long-time listener would also be stretching the truth a little.

 

I played bad cop and said their frequent discussions about VAR often fundamentally miss the point as to what makes it so awful for fans. Invited them to truly represent fan views (given macintyre frequently justifies the topic by saying it’s for the fans) by having a discussion about some key questions on its implementation and continued use. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I played bad cop and said their frequent discussions about VAR often fundamentally miss the point as to what makes it so awful for fans. Invited them to truly represent fan views (given macintyre frequently justifies the topic by saying it’s for the fans) by having a discussion about some key questions on its implementation and continued use. 

I made a similar point that in the discussions I've heard, they often allow the improvement in accuracy to be presented as some kind of "case closed" moment, and I have honestly never heard that challenged with the question of whether it's worth it to fans or why nobody has bothered asking whether it's worth it to fans.

I wasn't rude at all, but I made the case that people from the SFA/clubs and refereeing community on the show have always been given a very generous hearing in terms of being positive about VAR. To me, that's just shoddy journalism. It should be followed up and the other side presented.

They get pushed on individual decisions, but that is missing the point. Sportsound has never seriously asked anyone to justify VAR's use. Not that I've heard.

Edited March 21 by VincentGuerin

[HibsFan]

Getting bogged down in the merits of individual decisions is one of the biggest mistakes that nominally ‘anti-VAR’ segments in the Scottish football media make.

The question shouldn’t be “was that decision right or wrong”, it should be “right or wrong: was that really worth pausing the game and detracting from the match-going fan’s experience for?”.