Chasing VAR out of Scotland

[KingswellsRed]

On 21/03/2024 at 16:18, velo army said:

Petitions are great. Hashtags are what help things go more viral. Both, I think, are the way forward. A petition can be used as overwhelming evidence too. Do you want to make one?

I am not exactly the best with words but I have emailed both my club and Sportsound.

[Crùbag]

On 17/03/2024 at 12:03, HibsFan said:

A post that I missed last month from @VincentGuerin in the second iteration of a 'VAR in Scottish football' thread on here has got me thinking about the entirely ineffectual 'fan backlash' to VAR in Scotland to date:

  Reveal hidden contents

Now, to make a few things crystal clear before getting into this.

This thread...

• does not aim to discuss any past or future VAR decisions in Scottish football, there are other threads for this
• does not seek to argue that one club has been wronged more than others, point-scoring etc is a waste of time
• makes the case that there is no acceptable form of VAR, again there are other threads for you to discuss VAR Lite etc.
• is not pretending that fans in Scotland are completely united against VAR; it is talking to those who are already against it
• has an already extremely limited chance of success, made even slimmer if it descends into debating about VAR itself
• looks to take inspiration from examples such as the Swedish top flight as proof that we can have a VAR-less league in Scotland

What I would like to focus on in is the point raised in the quoted post above.

There are plenty of Scottish football fans - not least of all on here - talking the talk about VAR, but who is actually prepared to walk the walk?

Personally, the three or four ideas that V.G. proposed in that post are incredibly feasible and realistic suggestions:

1. Write to your club and imply that you are a dissatisfied customer who wonders how much longer you can spend money on football with VAR
2. Write to your club and - at a minimum - express your disappointment and ask when they will be holding consultations with fans about VAR
3. Call up / text in radio programmes and discuss the issue of VAR on a public platform, get the issues fans have with VAR heard by a wider audience
4. Write to newspapers and outline why fans are sick of VAR and what you would like to see happen next

Even if each anti-VAR poster on here committed to doing just one of these, it would have the potential to make the stakeholders of Scottish football at least sit up and take notice of supporters again.

So, to get a response to this, I've set up a poll detailing some (or all) of the actions anti-VAR people on here would be prepared to take to help lead a fightback against the idea that VAR is here to stay in Scotland.

Since being seen to care about things and trying to make your voice heard often gets sneered at in the UK, I've even made the poll anonymous. Lucky you.

Anyway, to stop this being too long an opening post, I'll end it here and add another post below where I get into answering the 'well that's all well and good, but what have you done, mate?' question that will inevitably be coming my way.

 

This thread...

 

 

Edited March 22 by Crùbag

[HibsFan]

…moving swiftly on. 

Kettlewell’s leading the charge.

 

[KingswellsRed]

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

…moving swiftly on. 

Kettlewell’s leading the charge.

 

The issue the clubs have here is that even if say 50% of fans liked VAR (and I think the figure is lower), I can’t see it attracting anyone new to start attending but it is certainly likely to put folk off.

Edited March 23 by KingswellsRed

[PTR]

2 hours ago, HibsFan said:

…moving swiftly on. 

Kettlewell’s leading the charge.

 

Good to hear, but some kind of change? It is completely incompatible with the game. No change will ever make it work. I just wish someone would admit it's pish so we can go back to the previous imperfect, but more fun, football.

[strichener]

15 hours ago, PTR said:

Good to hear, but some kind of change? It is completely incompatible with the game. No change will ever make it work. I just wish someone would admit it's pish so we can go back to the previous imperfect, but more fun, football.

That won't happen for years after VAR is removed.  You'll have all the pundits referencing it whenever an incident is missed or a dubious decision is given.

[Zamora Fan]

Nice work to get some momentum going, @HibsFan @VincentGuerin and all. I've sent just a couple of pars to Saints making clear I think it should be scrapped, not tweaked, and saying they will lose my money if they continue to back VAR. Took about 10 mins max. 

I've long wondered about the viability of doing a proper, representative poll of Scottish top-flight season ticket holders. Having some data to point at would be very useful I think — I suspect most would say it isn't working, and maybe at this stage you could just about get, say, a narrow plurality who think it should be scrapped altogether (though I might be being pessimistic: maybe 80% want it scrapped! If that was the case finding out might force some hands ..) If you asked whether fans would consider binning their season tickets if VAR continued, that would be a good way of making the point about lost income to clubs ... especially as I imagine no one is giving up their season ticket if VAR got scrapped. 

The problem is, polls are expensive. A poll of season ticket holders would be especially expensive to organize since there representatively aren't that many in Scotland. But polling companies often do freebies for media outlets for the sake of the free publicity ... so if any pollsters are reading, a Scotland only, season ticket only poll would make you a national topic of conversation for weeks. I imagine those at the top of the game in Scotland reckon our opinions will roughly line up with those of the weirdo English premier league fans — YouGov found in October that only 16% of them would scrap it. I think they're wrong.

Spoiler

We do have this from November, but to me that looks like an internet survey rather than a representative poll https://scottishfsa.org/the-2023-var-survey/ Those are easy to ignore. 

 

 

[Mark Connolly]

3 hours ago, strichener said:

That won't happen for years after VAR is removed.  You'll have all the pundits referencing it whenever an incident is missed or a dubious decision is given.

Within 5 minutes of the first dodgy decision against Celtic or Rangers it would be "Well VAR wasn't perfect, but it would have got that right", and we'll be onto to pundits demanding it back

[MarkoP]

On 17/03/2024 at 12:15, RawB93 said:

I'm gonna put on an iron shirt

And chase VAR out of Earth

In a Dreadzone Styley I hope?

[KingswellsRed]

As others have said, it feels like there is finally a bit of momentum here. If you are against VAR and you can, get those emails in

[Alert Mongoose]

38 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

I've sent just a couple of pars to Saints making clear I think it should be scrapped

I realise you are angry but is this not taking a step too far..? Best left in Fife.

[Drooper]

VAR has killed off the enjoyment I had of going to games. Kettlewell's faither is absolutely spot-on.

I can't see me returning regularly until it has been hunted.

[Monkey Tennis]

On 17/03/2024 at 13:47, Thistle_do_nicely said:

 would also suggest that Rangers going into the 3rd tier was largely off the back of fans...

The Rangers re-birth was put into the 4th tier.

This thread is, after all, all about an accurate reading being reached after an interminable delay.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

On 24/03/2024 at 13:50, Zamora Fan said:

Nice work to get some momentum going, @HibsFan @VincentGuerin and all. I've sent just a couple of pars to Saints making clear I think it should be scrapped, not tweaked, and saying they will lose my money if they continue to back VAR. Took about 10 mins max. 

I've long wondered about the viability of doing a proper, representative poll of Scottish top-flight season ticket holders. Having some data to point at would be very useful I think — I suspect most would say it isn't working, and maybe at this stage you could just about get, say, a narrow plurality who think it should be scrapped altogether (though I might be being pessimistic: maybe 80% want it scrapped! If that was the case finding out might force some hands ..) If you asked whether fans would consider binning their season tickets if VAR continued, that would be a good way of making the point about lost income to clubs ... especially as I imagine no one is giving up their season ticket if VAR got scrapped. 

The problem is, polls are expensive. A poll of season ticket holders would be especially expensive to organize since there representatively aren't that many in Scotland. But polling companies often do freebies for media outlets for the sake of the free publicity ... so if any pollsters are reading, a Scotland only, season ticket only poll would make you a national topic of conversation for weeks. I imagine those at the top of the game in Scotland reckon our opinions will roughly line up with those of the weirdo English premier league fans — YouGov found in October that only 16% of them would scrap it. I think they're wrong.

  Hide contents

We do have this from November, but to me that looks like an internet survey rather than a representative poll https://scottishfsa.org/the-2023-var-survey/ Those are easy to ignore. 

 

 

 

Noted on the poll it specifies "viewers" and "watchers" - got to suspect that figure is skewed by armchair fans who'll just lap up whatever EPL shite they're being served.

Edited March 25 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Red Kite]

On 17/03/2024 at 17:55, velo army said:

"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has".  Margaret Mead.

As @KingswellsRed says above all it will take is for one decent sized club to come out against it (no offence Morton fans) and the rest will start to follow. I saw recently that there was a poll of EPL fans and 1 in 25 fans (4%) were still in favour of it. This isn't getting much of an airing, but it should. 

 

Good to see some anthropology on P&B.  Nice.

[Red Kite]

I still cannot understand how Scotland even ended up with VAR.  If anyone in charge had listened to 5Live, it was constant angry callers saying it was last.  I wish it would be binned from all football.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Scottish Premiership told what life's REALLY like in comparable league where VAR doesn't exist – the truth of saying NO - Daily Record

Quote

Enquist outlined specifically to Record Sport why his country has said no to the technology. Sweden refuses to budge on their resistance to VAR with fans and clubs uninterested in accepting the stoppages, delays, lack of information and outbreaks of unnecessary controversy. Enquist was almost psychic as regards subsequent incidents in Scotland as he explained: “It’s opening up a new box of decisions and discussions. When is handball a handball?

A few folk on here were 'almost psychic' predicting what would happen when VAR was introduced in our top flight too. Good for Sweden listening to fans, shame on Scotland for not doing the same.

[Charles Stiles]

17 hours ago, Red Kite said:

I still cannot understand how Scotland even ended up with VAR.  

England have it.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Charles Stiles said:

England have it.

Reminds me of when i'd say to my mum when getting a row for doing something, but *insert pals name here* did it too, and my mum would reply, if England ran in front of a lorry would you do it too...........

In Scotland's case, copying England, yes we would.

[Dons_1988]

6 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

A few folk on here were 'almost psychic' predicting what would happen when VAR was introduced in our top flight too. 

Putting that on my CV