Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[Sergeant Wilson]

31 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Idea is you grind their military and financial power down without them ever entering an outright war

How's that going for Russia?

[Wee-Bey]

31 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Seen a theory that Russia, Iran, and China, are cycling through attacks on US allies to spread them as thin as possible.

Russia go for Ukraine/NATO, Iran go for Israel, China go for Taiwan.

That's the US trying to support 3 different nations, in 3 different conflicts, in 3 different parts of the world.

Idea is you grind their military and financial power down without them ever entering an outright war as they can't pick just one and can't do all three.

Sounds like a bollocks theory tbh but be interesting to see if things escalate in Taiwan this year.

Imo I don't think there's a real concious effort or coalition between those 3 to do what you've said, although there's certainly more co-operation between the three as US sanctions push them and others together out of necessity.

These are just the frontiers of an empire that is beginning to fray at the edges. Whilst they're clearly still the most powerful nation on earth, American hegemony is starting to wane.

[ClydeTon]

Israel vs Palestine is now...

Germany vs (one supporter of) Celtic FC.

The war reaches Europe...

 

On a serious note - has there been a conflict with more fanatical supporters, for both sides, than this one?

The reasonable neutral would be pro-ceasefire and pro-getting Israel to back down; but there is a sizeable % of westerners  who have an almost unhealthy obsession with Israel/Palestine and acting like the world revolves around them. This guy is an example of Palestine's idiotic backers (right cause, wrong actions, etc. - also, look at his profile/timeline.) and the "" crowd Quoting/replying are both the same level of idiot, for me.

Minus points to the pro-Israels for backing a genocide/destruction of numerous neighbouring nations, obviously.

[Wee-Bey]

11 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

Israel vs Palestine is now...

Germany vs (one supporter of) Celtic FC.

The war reaches Europe...

 

On a serious note - has there been a conflict with more fanatical supporters, for both sides, than this one?

The reasonable neutral would be pro-ceasefire and pro-getting Israel to back down; but there is a sizeable % of westerners  who have an almost unhealthy obsession with Israel/Palestine and acting like the world revolves around them. This guy is an example of Palestine's idiotic backers (right cause, wrong actions, etc. - also, look at his profile/timeline.) and the "" crowd Quoting/replying are both the same level of idiot, for me.

Minus points to the pro-Israels for backing a genocide/destruction of numerous neighbouring nations, obviously.

This is the majority view of people in the West, but not their governments.

Of course there's headbangers on both sides, perhaps like the guy above. A key difference is that many of the headbangers on one side are actually in government or the media.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

They should call it 'The Middle Yeast' because tensions are always rising.

[Granny Danger]

Thousands of innocent civilians (who had no choice in the matter) slaughtered - barely a peep.

Seven Israeli soldiers (whose job it is to go to war) killed - headline news.

 

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Did they have them as well? 

Actually, yes.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, itzdrk said:

I feel even less sympathy for Israeli soldiers in Lebanon and Palestine than I do for Russian soldiers in Ukraine, because most of those Israeli soldiers are enthusiastic participants whereas most Russian soldiers are poor, undereducated boys from rural villages and are disproportionately from Russia's colonised peoples. Also, the Israeli soldiers have an even more racist view of those they are attacking and commit vastly more war crimes against civilians.

[GordonS]

On 01/10/2024 at 21:44, ClydeTon said:

Hello, Keir.

 

Apart from anything else, this may well provoke terror attacks here. He's going to get some of us killed.

[Highlandmagar]

4 hours ago, GordonS said:

Apart from anything else, this may well provoke terror attacks here. He's going to get some of us killed.

That has always been a risk. We have meddled in the Middle East for millenia.  In recent times had a wee part in Iraq and Syria. We are always going to be a target no matter who is PM.

[Freedom Farter]

Taken from here:

https://www.hauntologies.net/p/hezbollah-10-things-you-need-to-know

Quote

They also come from a different ideological lineage than the Sunni extremists ala Al Qaeda or ISIS (both of whom are mortal enemies of Hezbollah). Unlike those others, Hezbollah doesn't partake in some 'global jihad' against random civilians in Western cities. It is not building a caliphate.

That's on Hezbollah but the same goes for Iran. Without pretending I know about the respective theologies, supposedly Shia Islam doesn't allow for "offensive jihad" whereas Sunni Islam does. 

[Freedom Farter]

10 hours ago, ClydeTon said:

Israel vs Palestine is now...

Germany vs (one supporter of) Celtic FC.

The war reaches Europe...

 

On a serious note - has there been a conflict with more fanatical supporters, for both sides, than this one?

The reasonable neutral would be pro-ceasefire and pro-getting Israel to back down; but there is a sizeable % of westerners  who have an almost unhealthy obsession with Israel/Palestine and acting like the world revolves around them. This guy is an example of Palestine's idiotic backers (right cause, wrong actions, etc. - also, look at his profile/timeline.) and the "" crowd Quoting/replying are both the same level of idiot, for me.

Minus points to the pro-Israels for backing a genocide/destruction of numerous neighbouring nations, obviously.

Germany are the second largest arms exporters to Israel and are now subject to ICJ proceedings over that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._Germany)

Previously when South Africa began ICJ proceedings against Israel, Germany came out strongly against it. Namibia, in turn, then came out angrily in support of South Africa. The relevance there is that the 20th century's first genocide was committed against Namibians by Germany. 80% of indigenous Namibians were murdered, medical experimentation was done to them and the concept of lebensraum was first applied (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57279008). It took Germany until 2021 to officially recognise they'd done that. 

Germany carved out a post-WW2 identity where making amends to Europeans (including European Jews) would suffice, allowing them to just ignore the existence of the Global South. That cosy arrangement is now being challenged, as it was always going to be at some point, and there's a bit of a state backlash going on. Arrests for displaying Palestine flags is one aspect of it. 

[Hedgecutter]

On 01/10/2024 at 21:50, GTG_03 said:

I've yet to hear that Palestine or Lebanon have a right to self defence. 

I thought kier would be spineless and corrupt in office, I just didn't imagine it being so obvious so quickly.

I guess there's always a chance that he'll perform another spectacular backtrack.

The UK has to be a world leader in 'law when it suits, guideline when it becomes inconvenient '.

[Zetterlund]

6 hours ago, GordonS said:

Apart from anything else, this may well provoke terror attacks here. He's going to get some of us killed.

 

2 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

That has always been a risk. We have meddled in the Middle East for millenia.  In recent times had a wee part in Iraq and Syria. We are always going to be a target no matter who is PM.

Yup, this has always been the case, and our leaders know this will happen as a result of their misadventures abroad. They just need to keep the numbers to an acceptable level and spin it as them hating us for our freedoms, not for us blowing up 4 generations of their family or levelling their villages.

[Freedom Farter]

That guy is American-educated, formerly worked for the World Bank (in Washington) and was Lebanese ambassador to USA. He's far from Hezbollah-aligned so there's no reason to doubt what he says there.

[bobbydazzler]

when does the (now with...) on this thread stop? 

[Leith Green]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagar said:

That has always been a risk. We have meddled in the Middle East for millenia.  In recent times had a wee part in Iraq and Syria. We are always going to be a target no matter who is PM.

Indeed, and o bring it back it back to the current issue, the UK was pretty much front and centre for being responsible for the current debacle. 

My maternal grandad, doing his National Service, was attacked by a Palestinian who the British soldiers were forcibly removing in order that their land and homes could become part of Israel.

I am staggered that we havent had more terrorist attacks as a result, tbh

Edited 8 hours ago by Leith Green

[ClydeTon]

1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said:

Germany are the second largest arms exporters to Israel and are now subject to ICJ proceedings over that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._Germany)

Previously when South Africa began ICJ proceedings against Israel, Germany came out strongly against it. Namibia, in turn, then came out angrily in support of South Africa. The relevance there is that the 20th century's first genocide was committed against Namibians by Germany. 80% of indigenous Namibians were murdered, medical experimentation was done to them and the concept of lebensraum was first applied (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57279008). It took Germany until 2021 to officially recognise they'd done that. 

Germany carved out a post-WW2 identity where making amends to Europeans (including European Jews) would suffice, allowing them to just ignore the existence of the Global South. That cosy arrangement is now being challenged, as it was always going to be at some point, and there's a bit of a state backlash going on. Arrests for displaying Palestine flags is one aspect of it. 

In this instance it was due to the "From the river to the sea" on the flag (which is explained to the Celtic fan here:

- also note his sheepish tone to the police, compared to the hard man in the previous video).

The phrase is banned in Germany mainly because of the reasons you've said, but also because it's fairly easy to see the arguement (especially after Hamas adopted it) that it's a call for a wipeout of Israel- the kind of thing the Germans are still a bit touchy about.

[eez-eh]

38 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

In this instance it was due to the "From the river to the sea" on the flag (which is explained to the Celtic fan here:

- also note his sheepish tone to the police, compared to the hard man in the previous video).

The phrase is banned in Germany mainly because of the reasons you've said, but also because it's fairly easy to see the arguement (especially after Hamas adopted it) that it's a call for a wipeout of Israel- the kind of thing the Germans are still a bit touchy about.

I’m sure the Germans would take the same issue with someone displaying “from the river to the sea Israel will be free”. Right?

[GHF-23]

I think all the Poindexter's whose main response to major world events is "people on my social media timeline are being insufficiently balanced about this for me" should be shot out of a cannon (preferably into the turret of a Merkava)