The New Raith Rovers Thread

[foreverarover]

 I assume that at no stage there has been any talk of reverting back to a hybrid system. With the Pars coming up and possibly Falkirk. We will be competing to buy the dregs of the full time pit in the transfer market. The jobbers and guys looking desperatly to cling to full time football but are effectively crap. I'd rather us look also into decent part time players that are accomplished in a certain position we are weak in rather tham this "utility" player who is usually at best ok to mediocre. 

[roverthemoon]

2 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Raith are a bigger club than Arbroath.  I don't think anyone would debate that.  You have a bigger fanbase, history, stadium.  We've spent significant money over the years upgrading our facilities, but we are still able to run a sustainable football club.  If we can do it, why can't Raith?

It’s all because of chasing the dream and trying to compete at a higher level than we can afford. Arbroath set out their stall, run the club properly and I’m guessing see sustaining Championship football as the primary goal. For some reason we aim higher and pay more than we can afford even though crowds and interest don’t match those ambitions. I’d rather we followed the Arbroath model and had a sustainable club. 

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/4306798/raith-regime-change-imminent-as-outgoing-kelty-trio-set-for-major-roles-in-rovers-shake-up/

 

According to this, our friends from Kelty will have a majority stake in the club with Sim retaining ownership of the stadium. 

* Heavy sigh*

One of the big problems remains, then. 

[Broken Algorithms]

14 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Raith are a bigger club than Arbroath.  I don't think anyone would debate that.  You have a bigger fanbase, history, stadium.  We've spent significant money over the years upgrading our facilities, but we are still able to run a sustainable football club.  If we can do it, why can't Raith?

Arbroath aren't paying off the legacy cost of a white elephant stadium as a result of the 90s halcyon days. We hit our best period as a club right at the post Hillsborough all seated insistence. The costs for our ground are far in excess of our needs. 

[Scary Bear]

37 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Well you could run the club sustainably and within its means?

We are clearly incapable of that. Keep up!

[dysartrovers]

f**k getting promoted only to suffer days like Kilmarnock are having now. No thanks. Until the arse cheeks disappear then I'm not interested

[Jilted John]

18 minutes ago, Michael W said:

* Heavy sigh*

One of the big problems remains, then. 

I’ve been told the original deal was for both the club and the stadium. Sim and Mackenzie’s valuations were poles apart so the deal fell through. They came back to the table, agreed to buy the club now and continue to discuss the stadium with a view to buying that eventually too.

[Kelheart]

As much as we are gutted to see Dean go onto new adventures would like it if you guys just give him a chance , keep saying it but the transformation of our team and village due to his vision and business and football input was and is second to none , he has taken us as far as we are likely to go and he's an ambitious guy so really hope it all works out well for you guys and also don't see a load of suitors wanting to invest their time , money etc like these folk are what's not to like ??

[Ro Sham Bo]

10 minutes ago, dysartrovers said:

f**k getting promoted only to suffer days like Kilmarnock are having now. No thanks. Until the arse cheeks disappear then I'm not interested

You spoke to soon. The comeback is on... 

[Michael W]

41 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

It’s all because of chasing the dream and trying to compete at a higher level than we can afford. Arbroath set out their stall, run the club properly and I’m guessing see sustaining Championship football as the primary goal. For some reason we aim higher and pay more than we can afford even though crowds and interest don’t match those ambitions. I’d rather we followed the Arbroath model and had a sustainable club. 

We have seen more than enough evidence that League One is where full-time football goes to die. We racked up a huge loss getting out of it, Dunfermline will do so likewise this season and Falkirk's losses thus far have been horrendous as well. Championship football is imperative to the club. However, this does not also mean we should cripple the club to avoid relegation. If we'd went down on the back of this financial clusterfuck of a season, we'd be in one hell of a state and probably not in a position to absorb further losses in an attempt to return. At a certain point, the cupboard is bare. 

We are where we are because the club's financial planning and controls have been abysmal. Income projections have clearly been too optimistic, inadequate controls were in place to prevent McGlynn offering daft contracts which robbed future budgets and we hired an absolute wage-thief as CEO, who contributed nothing whatsoever to the club's commercial operation. We can't even sell hospitality and match sponsorship FFS. Sim, meanwhile, has been away detached from this circus and clearly oblivious to what was going on in the club he has total control over. I know I keep going on about it, but the man ran a fucking global accountancy firm. Robust financial controls and oversight should be the first thing on his mind. 

There are a number of problems the club has suffered, but that are all interrelated. They all come back to shite governance. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Michael W

[Michael W]

10 minutes ago, Jilted John said:

I’ve been told the original deal was for both the club and the stadium. Sim and Mackenzie’s valuations were poles apart so the deal fell through. They came back to the table, agreed to buy the club now and continue to discuss the stadium with a view to buying that eventually too.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that turned out to be true, although my initial thought was there isn't enough money to but Sim out. A problem I think we've all spoken about at length over the last six months or so. 

Hopefully we will soon see exactly what the situation is. 

[ExiledLichtie]

37 minutes ago, roverthemoon said:

It’s all because of chasing the dream and trying to compete at a higher level than we can afford. Arbroath set out their stall, run the club properly and I’m guessing see sustaining Championship football as the primary goal. For some reason we aim higher and pay more than we can afford even though crowds and interest don’t match those ambitions. I’d rather we followed the Arbroath model and had a sustainable club. 

I've been around long enough to see teams splurge money they didn't have to chase the dream.  We've been very slowly growing for 20 years, but I still see our "new" level as being a team that will flit between league 1 and the championship.  I get that Raith see their level as higher than that, given your history, but its been a while has it not?  Surely if your fans had a perspective where you saw yourself as a solid championship club, with the aim of growing, it would be healthier?

33 minutes ago, Broken Algorithms said:

Arbroath aren't paying off the legacy cost of a white elephant stadium as a result of the 90s halcyon days. We hit our best period as a club right at the post Hillsborough all seated insistence. The costs for our ground are far in excess of our needs. 

That is true, we own our ground and don't need to pay rent, although as I said, significant money has been spent in recent years.  Is it legacy debt, or just huge running costs?

[Raith Against The Machine]

14 hours ago, pub car king said:

K107 is worth a listen on catch up this week. 

For anyone a little put off by the two hour runtime on the podcast, discussion of the AGM starts at the 49 minute mark. 

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

 

That is true, we own our ground and don't need to pay rent, although as I said, significant money has been spent in recent years.  Is it legacy debt, or just huge running costs?

Both. The club has a fair chunk of legacy debt* and is also currently losing a lot of money. Projected loss of £300-400k this season despite playing Rangers in a televised QF at Ibrox. 

*The legacy debt is owed to Directors or ex-Directors rather than a bank, but much of it is stadium mortgage payments that just weren't paid by the club. The stadium was mortgaged due to overspending which nearly put the club under. 

[foreverarover]

1 hour ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Raith are a bigger club than Arbroath.  I don't think anyone would debate that.  You have a bigger fanbase, history, stadium.  We've spent significant money over the years upgrading our facilities, but we are still able to run a sustainable football club.  If we can do it, why can't Raith?

If our business model was to try to stay in the league as the basis of a season and try to sell season tickets on that remit, they will be playing in front of two men and a dog. Rovers fans for whay ever reason won't entertain that. 

[pub car king]

35 minutes ago, Jilted John said:

I’ve been told the original deal was for both the club and the stadium. Sim and Mackenzie’s valuations were poles apart so the deal fell through. They came back to the table, agreed to buy the club now and continue to discuss the stadium with a view to buying that eventually too.

This sounds like the Wrexham situation. 

That being said perhaps Sim is just being careful by holding onto the ground. Should this all go tits up a year down the line we'll still have a ground to play in. 

[Crawford]

9 minutes ago, pub car king said:

This sounds like the Wrexham situation. 

That being said perhaps Sim is just being careful by holding onto the ground. Should this all go tits up a year down the line we'll still have a ground to play in. 

Two words, residential development.

[basher brash]

1 hour ago, foreverarover said:

What all this "he's earned his money from elsewhere" what the fcuk does that actually mean??

It was a reply to Ro sham bo who alleges Dean Mackenzie has earned his money from other activities use your imagination !  

[Raith Against The Machine]

42 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

For anyone a little put off by the two hour runtime on the podcast, discussion of the AGM starts at the 49 minute mark. 

Having now listened to this, I'd agree with the recommendation that others do too. It's a lengthy discussion on both the AGM and then the proposed investment, with a fair bit of insight on both (particularly the investment) that I haven't seen or heard elsewhere. 

Graeme Kilgour reveals his obvious conflict of interest because his brother is part of the "consortium", but it is reassuring to a fair degree, albeit a good bit of trepidation remains. 

For anyone interested, you can hear it here. 

[Jilted John]

2 hours ago, foreverarover said:

What all this "he's earned his money from elsewhere" what the fcuk does that actually mean??

What it tends to mean is that the person writing it tends to be jealous of the local businessman’s success so rather than putting it down to hard work, they try to smear them with some nonsense to make themselves feel better.