The Falkirk FC Thread

[FK1Bairn]

2 hours ago, HonestAl said:

McGlynn mentioning another injury to a key player (Miller, McGinn, Mackie, McKay already on the ‘out’ list). There are now several players reckoned to be “key” - Lang, Donaldson, McCann, Spencer, Williamson, MacIver, Alfie - so this is worrying news. Suspect it may be Alfie.

Williamson? Presume you mean Henderson

Edited September 14, 2023 by FK1Bairn

[RC55 FFC]

Just now, FK1Bairn said:

Williamson?

Remember he once labelled Oliver as key . Not a dig at Oliver as he’s steady but shouldn’t be a starter this season imho. 

[Mr Grimsdale]

On paper a decent signing. I remember him giving us a hard time in the cup at our place. Let’s hope he does the biz. Nice to hear the manager appreciating those fans who bought the last of the shares and the young team and the rest of the fans who are giving the team superb backing. Be brilliant to see 5000 Saturday 

[GMBairn]

9 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

As I said boxing is  far worse but it's not banned so why would you ban heading in football. Restrictions in training have been put in place and again you just need to like any other sport  make people aware of the dangers and ensure the correct medical care is in place.  Cycling has seen a spate of people killed in training and races will we stop them going round corners or up and down hills. We need to stop wrapping people up in cotton wool these days.

You can't really say you can explain the dangers and let people make their own decisions when people start playing football as children, they are literally incapable of considering complex health issues they might face 40 years in the future. 

[Long Suffering Bairn]

I think heading the ball will make an exit from the game within maybe the next 10-15 years, I believe there is overwhelming evidence about long term damage from heading.  It will take that long to overcome the history and tradition that heading is so much part of the game.  Barging a goalkeeper over their own line used to be fine in the 50's and before.  Substitutes were never a thing before early 70's (could have the date wrong).  Things change. It will be jarring but we will get used to it.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Long Suffering Bairn

[HonestAl]

1 hour ago, FK1Bairn said:

Williamson? Presume you mean Henderson

I actually meant Morrison (mental block), sorry.

[Blane Fonda]

38 minutes ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

I think heading the ball will make an exit from the game within maybe the next 10-15 years, I believe there is overwhelming evidence about long term damage from heading.  It will take that long to overcome the history and tradition that heading is so much part of the game.  Barging a goalkeeper over their own line used to be fine in the 50's and before.  Substitutes were never a thing before early 70's (could have the date wrong).  Things change. It will be jarring but we will get used to it.

 

Heading is an integral part of football. They might introduce something like ice hockey style zones to limit big punts up the park by forcing play through each zone. Taking the hoof and launching the ball into the mixer out the game,. 
But corner kicks and wingers crossing the ball into the box will remain.

[mrpaddyx]

5 hours ago, ebobsboy said:

That's a decent loan signing tbf and quite surprising I thought we were pretty much done with incomings after signing a right back. McGlynn does love a Raith player, not sure what Aidan Connolly's situation is but I wouldn't be surprised if he moved for him in the summer aswell. 

He just signed a new 3 year deal in the Summer with us so I can't see him going anywhere next year.

[KiwiDB]

11 hours ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

The balls have not changed weight and although the weight when wet has near been eliminated the resulting higher velocity makes heading the ball just as dangerous.

Have a read of the various articles on the subject. I thought like you but reading them changed my mind. Players now in defense are 5 times more likely to get Dementia that's thats convinced the ruling bodies change has to come. The discussion they are having is how and the best way to phase it in.

5 times more likely means nothing without some underlying context, does it take the risk from 0.01% to 0.05% or does it take it from 5% to 25%?

Big difference between those two scenarios.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

7 hours ago, KiwiDB said:

5 times more likely means nothing without some underlying context, does it take the risk from 0.01% to 0.05% or does it take it from 5% to 25%?

Big difference between those two scenarios.

Took me about 5 seconds to find a study in the Lancet where Swedish ex players were about 50% more likely to have neurodegenerative disease than control.

9% versus 6% of the groups.

I am sure there are multiple other studies out there if you look.

[Guest]

This is the University of Glasgow study, which is also referenced in the Swedish one. They had less matched population(Sweden had around 10 to each player, this one had 3) to match up to the former players but found 5% of former players developed neurodegenerative disease compared to 1.6% of matched population controls.
 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2782750

Edited September 15, 2023 by Van_damage

[Shodwall cat]

12 hours ago, GMBairn said:

You can't really say you can explain the dangers and let people make their own decisions when people start playing football as children, they are literally incapable of considering complex health issues they might face 40 years in the future. 

Heading is banned in training at that age already though and even during matches your lucky if you see anyone heading a ball much. It's much later that it becomes a bigger part of the game and at that age they are more than capable of making a decision. 

What is the actual percentage of people that continue playing football at a competitive 11 a side level after they leave school.  How many people actually play football from a young age right through to say 40 competitively.  Many will play 5s and then walking football but very rarely any heading takes place in those games.

Do people who play till they leave school have a higher chance of getting dementia or just people who continue playing afterwards? 

Most of the studies I've seen have involved professional footballers and that's a very small proportion of people who play football at the end of the day. 

[MulsonFFC]

1 minute ago, Shodwall cat said:

Most of the studies I've seen have involved professional footballers and that's a very small proportion of people who play football at the end of the day. 

Aye, f*ck them eh..... 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

Heading is banned in training at that age already though and even during matches your lucky if you see anyone heading a ball much. It's much later that it becomes a bigger part of the game and at that age they are more than capable of making a decision. 

What is the actual percentage of people that continue playing football at a competitive 11 a side level after they leave school.  How many people actually play football from a young age right through to say 40 competitively.  Many will play 5s and then walking football but very rarely any heading takes place in those games.

Do people who play till they leave school have a higher chance of getting dementia or just people who continue playing afterwards? 

Most of the studies I've seen have involved professional footballers and that's a very small proportion of people who play football at the end of the day. 

The Glasgow of University study shows that the longer people are in the game, the higher the chances are of them dying of a neurological disorder so there does seem to be a correlation with how long you play. 

I tend to be in a bit of agreement on either side of this. Like you say there is a risk in everything and as adults we have a choice. Removing heading from kids training makes sense however I just can’t imagine the game without heading. Bringing in rule changes that actively try to reduce the amount of headers in a game and training would be worth trying first before attempting to scrap it altogether. 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Van_damage

[ShaggerG]

The head will just become the third hand. Eventually.

[Shodwall cat]

2 hours ago, MulsonFFC said:

Aye, f*ck them eh..... 

That's their job. Like a lot of jobs there's always going to be a certain amount of risk involved. What I'm trying to say though is that we are talking about changing an entire sport here . As I said I'd like to know what the situation is these days with people who play football up to say 18 and then never again or just 5s say. Is there any lasting damage done in their case.

[HopeStreetWalker]

13 hours ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

I think heading the ball will make an exit from the game within maybe the next 10-15 years, I believe there is overwhelming evidence about long term damage from heading.  It will take that long to overcome the history and tradition that heading is so much part of the game.  Barging a goalkeeper over their own line used to be fine in the 50's and before.  Substitutes were never a thing before early 70's (could have the date wrong).  Things change. It will be jarring but we will get used to it.

If you look at the best football to play and watch it's what it says on the tin Foot-Ball.

The genesis of this goes back to the Scottish Professors with the pass and move game. Look at the really great teams Real Madrid in the 50's Barcelona Cruyff era onward, Brazil WC 1970, Netherlands WC 1974 and on and on. All were ball on the deck teams and all the better for it.

Think of the innovative plays and tactics at a corner kick for example. The game will be more skillful and enjoyable to play and entertaining to watch and more people will be spared the terrible affliction of Dementia it's a no brainer and should be welcomed not resisted.

 

[Shodwall cat]

5 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

If you look at the best football to play and watch it's what it says on the tin Foot-Ball.

The genesis of this goes back to the Scottish Professors with the pass and move game. Look at the really great teams Real Madrid in the 50's Barcelona Cruyff era onward, Brazil WC 1970, Netherlands WC 1974 and on and on. All were ball on the deck teams and all the better for it.

Think of the innovative plays and tactics at a corner kick for example. The game will be more skillful and enjoyable to play and entertaining to watch and more people will be spared the terrible affliction of Dementia it's a no brainer and should be welcomed not resisted.

 

Sorry you can't beat a great move finished with a cracking cross and a diving header.  The games boring enough these days with virtually zero tackling allowed and theyve even banned contested bounce balls just in case a tackle broke out.  It's part of the game and it will never be the same if you take out heading completely.   A lot more studies are required on this especially with younger age groups and non professional footballers.  I played football from a young age till I was 35 competitively but wouldn't change it for anything no matter what happens to me from here on in.

[HopeStreetWalker]

2 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

Heading is banned in training at that age already though and even during matches your lucky if you see anyone heading a ball much. It's much later that it becomes a bigger part of the game and at that age they are more than capable of making a decision. 

What is the actual percentage of people that continue playing football at a competitive 11 a side level after they leave school.  How many people actually play football from a young age right through to say 40 competitively.  Many will play 5s and then walking football but very rarely any heading takes place in those games.

Do people who play till they leave school have a higher chance of getting dementia or just people who continue playing afterwards? 

Most of the studies I've seen have involved professional footballers and that's a very small proportion of people who play football at the end of the day. 

There is no reason to assume that the same dangers do not apply to players whatever the level.

The tragic statistic of a defender being 5 times more likely to get Dementia makes change a certainty.

That will come in with a transition period of a few years to get the sport to adapt to experimental rules changes in some competitions to come to a new set of Rules of the Game.

Respect

[HopeStreetWalker]

1 hour ago, Shodwall cat said:

Sorry you can't beat a great move finished with a cracking cross and a diving header.  The games boring enough these days with virtually zero tackling allowed and theyve even banned contested bounce balls just in case a tackle broke out.  It's part of the game and it will never be the same if you take out heading completely.   A lot more studies are required on this especially with younger age groups and non professional footballers.  I played football from a young age till I was 35 competitively but wouldn't change it for anything no matter what happens to me from here on in.

Don't be sorry! you have a sincere opinion and that's respected.

But the authorities are going to change the game to stop the onset of this terrible condition and that's a fact.

I encourage you to look at the articles on the subject and the first-hand experience from sufferers and the families and health professionals who look after them, it's heart-wrenching.

I had your opinion till I investigated the subject.

respect as always