Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: I guess Mr X and the other mods considered the tone and context when they elected to simply delete the conversation and issue no warning points or banning. Everyone should know better than to use those words though. Even people who think they are acceptable should recognise that society at large does not. That said, context does matter and saying it does not automatically make someone racist. They should allow themselves to be educated into not using it though.... Use it twice and I am likely to consider you a racist. Do you really think there is a person in the UK who does not know that Paki is a racist term used in a derogatory way to describe Pakistani people? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Gaz said: Do you really think there is a person in the UK who does not know that Paki is a racist term used in a derogatory way to describe Pakistani people? Probably not, but I can think of examples in my lifetime where people have used the term with no intention to show dislike or disrespect (same applies to chinky) Admittedly we are probably talking a lot more common 15-20 years ago as people become aware of the offense caused. My point simply is that not every instance of this is designed to cause offence, but if someone makes that mistake, they should make a point of not making it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Bairnardo said: Probably not, but I can think of examples in my lifetime where people have used the term with no intention to show dislike or disrespect (same applies to chinky) Admittedly we are probably talking a lot more common 15-20 years ago as people become aware of the offense caused. My point simply is that not every instance of this is designed to cause offence, but if someone makes that mistake, they should make a point of not making it again. If folk are using words like Paki and Chinky in 2018 then they're well aware how offensive they are. Ignorance is not an excuse. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Do you really think there is a person in the UK who does not know that Paki is a racist term used in a derogatory way to describe Pakistani people? I think there are people who object to words that were at one time commonly used in the same manner as the example of shortening of a word such as ‘Scottish’ to ‘Scot’, being labelled as racist terms. I can, kind of, see why they think that way. To me that’s more about ignorance rather than being racist though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, roman_bairn said: I think there are people who object to words that were at one time commonly used in the same manner as the example of shortening of a word such as ‘Scottish’ to ‘Scot’, being labelled as racist terms. I can, kind of, see why they think that way. To me that’s more about ignorance rather than being racist though... Apart from children, I don't believe there is a person alive in the UK who doesn't know that Paki and Chinky are racist, derogatory terms. Ergo, anyone who uses them is doing so in a racist, derogatory manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Gaz said: If folk are using words like Paki and Chinky in 2018 then they're well aware how offensive they are. Ignorance is not an excuse. FWIW being a poster on this forum, I find it hard to believe that Shadwell wasn't fully aware of what goes along with those words. All I was saying is that context does matter. Whether the context can excuse him in this instance, I do no know since I never seen it. I know how it went down though and I doubt it very much. But why would you say the mods didn't warn or ban him if it was so cut and dried that he is a blatant racist posting racist things? Again, FWIW, I cringe when I hear/see those terms used. All I am saying is that not everything is black and white. (pun not intended) -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Staggering. Utterly, utterly staggering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Apart from children, I don't believe there is a person alive in the UK who doesn't know that Paki and Chinky are racist, derogatory terms. Ergo, anyone who uses them is doing so in a racist, derogatory manner. I think there’s a lot of much older people around who do use the terms and cannot get their heads around why the terms are now so offensive. They are not racist, just ignorant of the effect of using the terms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, roman_bairn said: I think there’s a lot of much older people around who do use the terms and cannot get their heads around why the terms are now so offensive. They are not racist, just ignorant of the effect of using the terms. You are correct. In some cases they are racist, in some cases they are ignorant to it, in ALL cases, failure to acknowledge those effects and cease using it makes them racist. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Staggering. Utterly, utterly staggering. Seems that something said has offended you (again)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, roman_bairn said: I think there’s a lot of much older people around who do use the terms and cannot get their heads around why the terms are now so offensive. They are not racist, just ignorant of the effect of using the terms. Yeah... I'm out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: You are correct. In some cases they are racist, in some cases they are ignorant to it, in ALL cases, failure to acknowledge those effects and cease using it makes them racist. No, actually, I'm not out. Why are they only racist if they use the word, are educated about its use, and use it again? Why can't they be racist for using the word in the first place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainsfordbairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jimmy85 said: I absolutely was. I called a poster out on using a clear racist term. I’m not sure how that can be considered trolling at all tbh. I'm probably getting sucked in here, but I'll bite anyway. Is "Jap" a clear racist term? I have no idea. I don't know any Japanese people to ask if it would offend them. I might even use the term myself, in a text message for quickness, and if I did so I wouldn't have any racist motives. It would simply be a description of a group of people. Some "descriptive" words are well-known to be unacceptable nowadays, such as nigger and paki. Probably chinki too. Fair enough. Personally, I was unaware that Jap was on that list. What about Yank, Aussie, Taffy & Jock? Weegie, Fifer & Bairn? Ginger, bald & skinny? As the sensible posters above have pointed out, it's all about context. I saw nothing in the original post to imply malice so yes, you were trolling. It's a shame if you've caused Shadwell to leave. As I'd have loved to have seen his reaction after Alex Harris scored a hat-trick against you in early April. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 It is alright to condemn someone for using racist language when they support the same team as you. Just FYI. Obviously I am missing something here but I don’t see anyone actually defending Shadwell? At the same time there’s nothing wrong with debating why something that is said may or may not be considered racist either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 FFS General Nonsense or the Angry Wee Boys Politics threads for this pish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Gaz said: No, actually, I'm not out. Why are they only racist if they use the word, are educated about its use, and use it again? Why can't they be racist for using the word in the first place? Well if you genuinely don't know something is considered racist, how can you be using it with racial motivation? Generally in life I will allow people the chance to educate/improve themselves and mend their ways if they accept they are wrong. If you are told that a term is considered racist and continue, you are doing so knowingly and leaving no doubt about your motivation. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Just now, Bairnardo said: Well if you genuinely don't know something is considered racist, how can you be using it with racial motivation? Generally in life I will allow people the chance to educate/improve themselves and mend their ways if they accept they are wrong. If you are told that a term is considered racist and continue, you are doing so knowingly and leaving no doubt about your motivation. Do you genuinely believe that there is a person alive in the UK who isn't a young child and doesn't know that Paki is a racist term? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 No, actually, I'm not out. Why are they only racist if they use the word, are educated about its use, and use it again? Why can't they be racist for using the word in the first place? Answer = Context. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Obviously. Thanks for the concise clarification. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Gaz said: Do you genuinely believe that there is a person alive in the UK who isn't a young child and doesn't know that Paki is a racist term? I think you are underestimating the potential ignorance/lack of education of large parts of society. I have never said there are many contexts that could excuse someone from being considered racist, I simply disagree with your assessment that there are none. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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