FFC 1876 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 49 minutes ago, Rugster said: Can he play up front? Paying up front's enough for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi for De Massis Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rugster said: Can he play up front? Well, considering how miserable he looks signing, perhaps he might be Lawal good - his face was tripping him when he joined last season and he did rather nicely! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy1876 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said: Must admit to having a bit of trepidation when I read the Sun story last night but wanted to wait for the further detail before commenting. Just seen the FSS statement and still worried. Looks like we are making short-term financial promises based on future income (Remember Craig Whyte anyone?). Hopefully the FSS outriders on this forum can put me at ease. 1. Does this news now make the FSS an even harder sell to the ordinary punter? Before you could claim that every penny went into the club. Now the marketing line has to be 'Join FSS and help us pay back the Government'. 2. As an FSS member myself, bit worried this has not been done in consultation with members. Seems like a bit of mission creep to me. I joined the FSS on the basis that my money would be drip fed into the club and not to pay back a loan. If I had known that FSS was suddenly going to be taking out loans I might have thought twice. 3. Would be good to have a bit of clarity on what the loan is secured against? 20 years seems a long time and there's no guarantee that FSS will exist in that time. So what happens if FSS defaults? Also a worrying lack of clarity about who calls the shots at FSS. Lots of different names mentioned on the committee but who is actually in charge? A bit like the Club where no one seems willing to step up and take the responsibility. 1. Personally makes this an easier sell for me - now you can have a voice in the biggest shareholder of the club so that voice counts for more and if 80% of that money is still going to the club to me completely worth the 20% going to pay back a loan to get that voice. 2. Imagine that was not possible if Falkirk was the first club to do this then imagine the government would want this kept quietly. Either way the point of FSS is if you don't like how things are run you can vote people in or out. 3. Robocop said above the club are not liable for the loan and FSS are only liable for the money they have in the bank at time of repayment request (someone correct me if I got that wrong). Also to your last point. The committee was announced at the last AGM and if you are an FSS member will be in your emails. Likewise the club board I feel have been pretty visible and vocal with the fan base with lots of opportunities to speak to them so I am sure you are welcome to speak to them if you are concerned 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Baggio said: Yes but this is a little gem of an announcement that will see us rocket up the leagues... Oh ffs, will you just lettuce be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Basically, it all depends on the FFC directors managing the cash wisely. It puts a big responsibility on the FSS nominated directors to monitor closely what the club does with the cash. They need to step up to the plate and assert their authority. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC_Bairn Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Jimmy1876 said: 1. Personally makes this an easier sell for me - now you can have a voice in the biggest shareholder of the club so that voice counts for more and if 80% of that money is still going to the club to me completely worth the 20% going to pay back a loan to get that voice. 2. Imagine that was not possible if Falkirk was the first club to do this then imagine the government would want this kept quietly. Either way the point of FSS is if you don't like how things are run you can vote people in or out. 3. Robocop said above the club are not liable for the loan and FSS are only liable for the money they have in the bank at time of repayment request (someone correct me if I got that wrong). Also to your last point. The committee was announced at the last AGM and if you are an FSS member will be in your emails. Likewise the club board I feel have been pretty visible and vocal with the fan base with lots of opportunities to speak to them so I am sure you are welcome to speak to them if you are concerned 1. But the point is that the FSS's voice is not any stronger. The FSS has two board seats just now, and will still have two board seats after it puts this money in. So actually you're not getting any more influence. I think its a harder sell to say to fans now - join FSS and 80% of your money will go to FFC and 20% will go to repaying a loan we took from the Government. 2. It's more the fact the nature of the organisation has changed without consultation with members. We were never told that a % of our payments would be used to service a loan. 3. Appreciate the clarification from Robocop. I hadn't seen his post until after I posted -6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Before I get accused of being a bitter Pars fan (and I hope my record of posting stands me in good stead here), can I just ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been answered? 1. Are these shares being created or are you buying out an existing shareholder/shareholders? If it's the latter I'm not sure how good I'd feel at taxpayer money going into private individuals' hands. 2. If the loan is to buy shares, how does that then equate to an increased investment in the club? In other words, if the money is spend on acquiring shares, surely the only tangible result is that the FFS will be able to have more of a say in the running of the club, rather than paying for things outright. Or are the shares being effectively gifted to the FFS and the 350k is then able to be spend on the infrastructure side of things. 3. What would happen of the membership of the FFS drops to an extent that it is unable to make payments in full (as unlikely as that is)? Is the taxpayer then liable for any losses? What is to stop FFS from losing all their members and another group (Falkirk Forever or another group) from basically doing the same thing but without having debt repayments to make going forward. On the face of it, it seems a good deal for you boys and anything that brings greater fan representation and ownership to any club is to he applauded. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, MulsonFFC said: This is the bit I was missing and still have some questions about though. Are new and continuing FSS contributions really going to the club or is it going on loan repayments? Falkirk Forever is touted as any money raised goes directly to the football budget so why is that not a valid alternative? Falkirk Forever made absolutely no sense when it was announced but based on the answers to these it starts to make perfect sense and almost as if it has been created with this purpose in mind. Not really. FSS technically becomes what FFF is trying to be, but with a small % of every sub going to repay the loan over whatever extended period is agreed. The only way FFF becomes attractive is if supporters choose to hang FSS out to dry, and collectively, we choose to dishonour the agreement, and default on the loan. If that is a serious proposal, then we would all be as well following Livingston, Hearts, Dundee, Sevco, Motherwell and Dunfermline. None of them honoured their debts. Maybe that’s attractive to some, but I am sure there will be some built in assurances on repayments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodwall cat Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said: Heaven forbid people are allowed to ask legitimate questions It's the same people though that whilst asking these questions legitimately never have anything positive to say either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkirkBairn2021 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 This looks really good. Interest free loan and no risk to FSS given they'll have next to f**k all in the bank every year if things go tits up . Key thing for me was the repayment period which is long. Doesn't hamstring annual donations too much. I think given this is a one off windfall it puts even more pressure on promotion this year. We will never again be in as good a financial position as we are right now imo until we reach the top division again. Another year of failure and we're back to square one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Are the shares being bought newly issued or are they held by existing shareholders? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFC 1876 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Now the back office news is out can we get some box office signings confirmed? Squad update would be a good start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodwall cat Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Are the shares being bought newly issued or are they held by existing shareholders? These are new shares or there would be very little benefit to the club as the money would be going to private individuals. The government wouldn't have been interested if that was the case. The money is being used to pay towards pitch and youth development in part. Edited May 31, 2023 by Shodwall cat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriG-FFC Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 As an FSS member this looks an absolutely amazing deal and I am delighted. However as a taxpayer watching the council slash services around the Falkirk district. Particularly sports related venues with swimming pools and the grangemouth stadium etc. Seems a bit strange the government can dish out £350k loans interest free. Don't get me wrong I will take it but can see a lot of people being pissed off at this. Non Falkirk supporters obviously. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC_Bairn Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said: It's the same people though that whilst asking these questions legitimately never have anything positive to say either. You've hardly been a shining beacon of positivity over the years 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said: Before I get accused of being a bitter Pars fan (and I hope my record of posting stands me in good stead here), can I just ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been answered? 1. Are these shares being created or are you buying out an existing shareholder/shareholders? If it's the latter I'm not sure how good I'd feel at taxpayer money going into private individuals' hands. Existing unsold shares. 2. If the loan is to buy shares, how does that then equate to an increased investment in the club? In other words, if the money is spend on acquiring shares, surely the only tangible result is that the FFS will be able to have more of a say in the running of the club, rather than paying for things outright. Or are the shares being effectively gifted to the FFS and the 350k is then able to be spend on the infrastructure side of things. The shares will be sold to the FSS in exchange for the cash. Key will be how it is utilised, and it simply must be on Capex projects, not Opex. 3. What would happen of the membership of the FFS drops to an extent that it is unable to make payments in full (as unlikely as that is)? Is the taxpayer then liable for any losses? What is to stop FFS from losing all their members and another group (Falkirk Forever or another group) from basically doing the same thing but without having debt repayments to make going forward. I think there may well be some sort of guarantor (the club). On the face of it, it seems a good deal for you boys and anything that brings greater fan representation and ownership to any club is to he applauded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I think this would be a great time for the club to appoint a strong independent Chairman. I would have thought that Scotgov would have insisted on that but obviously not. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Are the shares being bought newly issued or are they held by existing shareholders? They are the entirety of all currently unsold shares. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Just now, Gringo said: I think this would be a great time for the club to appoint a strong independent Chairman. I would have thought that Scotgov would have insisted on that but obviously not. Must admit, I too would like a Chairperson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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