The Falkirk FC Thread

[Bairnardo]

Now spend £349,999 on the squad and tell wee Humza we're no wanting it anymore please. 

 

[falkirkzombie]

6 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Before I get accused of being a bitter Pars fan (and I hope my record of posting stands me in good stead here), can I just ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been answered?

1. Are these shares being created or are you buying out an existing shareholder/shareholders? If it's the latter I'm not sure how good I'd feel at taxpayer money going into private individuals' hands.

2. If the loan is to buy shares, how does that then equate to an increased investment in the club? In other words, if the money is spend on acquiring shares, surely the only tangible result is that the FFS will be able to have more of a say in the running of the club, rather than paying for things outright. Or are the shares being effectively gifted to the FFS and the 350k is then able to be spend on the infrastructure side of things. 

3. What would happen of the membership of the FFS drops to an extent that it is unable to make payments in full (as unlikely as that is)? Is the taxpayer then liable for any losses? What is to stop FFS from losing all their members and another group (Falkirk Forever or another group) from basically doing the same thing but without having debt repayments to make going forward. 

On the face of it, it seems a good deal for you boys and anything that brings greater fan representation and ownership to any club is to he applauded. 

To one of your points, these r new shares created with the last share issue, they have been ringfenced for FSS to buy, this loan has just sped up the process, no monies goes to individuals.

[Springfield]

Maybe a bit of misunderstanding but thought we already had the pitch and floodlights already provided for ? Without todays news of the new cash investment?

[Shodwall cat]

2 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

You've hardly been a shining beacon of positivity over the years

I've learned to become more balanced in my views. Dont agree with the new bod on everything but I also can see that they are a huge step up from the cretins that we had previously who nearly put the club under . This is a win win for me and great news.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

These are new shares or there would be very little benefit to the club as the money would be going to private individuals. The government wouldn't have been interested if that was the case. The money is being used to pay towards pitch and youth development in part.

Slight detail on that. They are not “new” in the sense of being newly created and thus diluting existing shares. They are shares that currently exist, but which were unsold.

[falkirkzombie]

1 minute ago, Springfield said:

Maybe a bit of misunderstanding but thought we already had the pitch and floodlights already provided for ? Without todays news of the new cash investment?

If we already had monies set aside for these projects it now becomes available for other things, that's how I'm reading it anyway

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Maybe a bit of misunderstanding but thought we already had the pitch and floodlights already provided for ? Without todays news of the new cash investment?

Perhaps from a BoD point of view, they were indeed “covered”, but by the cash coming from this announcement (which would have been known to the BoD for several months).

Edited May 31, 2023 by Duncan Freemason

[Shodwall cat]

Just now, Duncan Freemason said:

Slight detail on that. They are not “new” in the sense of being newly created and thus diluting existing shares. They are shares that currently exist, but which were unsold.

. Main thing is the money isn't being used to pay off private individuals it's going straight to the club.

[RC_Bairn]

1 minute ago, Shodwall cat said:

I've learned to become more balanced in my views. Dont agree with the new bod on everything but I also can see that they are a huge step up from the cretins that we had previously who nearly put the club under . This is a win win for me and great news.

Bold statement from a man with your past 

[Jimmy1876]

9 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Before I get accused of being a bitter Pars fan (and I hope my record of posting stands me in good stead here), can I just ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been answered?

1. Are these shares being created or are you buying out an existing shareholder/shareholders? If it's the latter I'm not sure how good I'd feel at taxpayer money going into private individuals' hands.

2. If the loan is to buy shares, how does that then equate to an increased investment in the club? In other words, if the money is spend on acquiring shares, surely the only tangible result is that the FFS will be able to have more of a say in the running of the club, rather than paying for things outright. Or are the shares being effectively gifted to the FFS and the 350k is then able to be spend on the infrastructure side of things. 

3. What would happen of the membership of the FFS drops to an extent that it is unable to make payments in full (as unlikely as that is)? Is the taxpayer then liable for any losses? What is to stop FFS from losing all their members and another group (Falkirk Forever or another group) from basically doing the same thing but without having debt repayments to make going forward. 

On the face of it, it seems a good deal for you boys and anything that brings greater fan representation and ownership to any club is to he applauded. 

To your first two points - the shares were created a while ago and ring fenced for purchase by FSS over the next few years while membership and donations grew, these shares were being purchased on a monthly basis. Now there is enough money to buy all the remaining shares directly from the club. So FSS get the majority shareholding and the money goes to the club.

To your third point - the club has no liability and the supporters group are liable for money they have in the bank at time of repayment so essentially no risk. Yes in theory the FSS could just decide it wants to go bust but that would defeat the point of the hard work they have put in to get us to this point in the first place and also would require all the menbers to just decide the 80k they are putting into the club every year out of wanting to support the club is not wanted anymore. Unlikely the full membership decides that in one go

[bairn88]

12 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Before I get accused of being a bitter Pars fan (and I hope my record of posting stands me in good stead here), can I just ask a couple of questions that don't seem to have been answered?

1. Are these shares being created or are you buying out an existing shareholder/shareholders? If it's the latter I'm not sure how good I'd feel at taxpayer money going into private individuals' hands.

2. If the loan is to buy shares, how does that then equate to an increased investment in the club? In other words, if the money is spend on acquiring shares, surely the only tangible result is that the FFS will be able to have more of a say in the running of the club, rather than paying for things outright. Or are the shares being effectively gifted to the FFS and the 350k is then able to be spend on the infrastructure side of things. 

3. What would happen of the membership of the FFS drops to an extent that it is unable to make payments in full (as unlikely as that is)? Is the taxpayer then liable for any losses? What is to stop FFS from losing all their members and another group (Falkirk Forever or another group) from basically doing the same thing but without having debt repayments to make going forward. 

On the face of it, it seems a good deal for you boys and anything that brings greater fan representation and ownership to any club is to he applauded. 

All good questions imo but all questions that are out of place on the Falkirk fc thread. They are basically questions of the Scottish government and the use of tax payer funds - I agree it seems like a very “interesting” deal from their point of view…..

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

These are new shares or there would be very little benefit to the club as the money would be going to private individuals. The government wouldn't have been interested if that was the case. The money is being used to pay towards pitch and youth development in part.

 

6 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

They are the entirety of all currently unsold shares.

Fair enough.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

3 minutes ago, falkirkzombie said:

If we already had monies set aside for these projects it now becomes available for other things, that's how I'm reading it anyway

I don't think the fans of other clubs will see it like that when we start investing money in players. Them's the breaks, I guess.

[LatapyBairn.]

12 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Are the shares being bought newly issued or are they held by existing shareholders?

The shares are still sitting there unsold from the previous share issue, the FSS has been slowly accruing them however this lump investment now lets them buy up the full allocation available in one go. 

[Jimmy1876]

13 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

1.  But the point is that the FSS's voice is not any stronger.  The FSS has two board seats just now, and will still have two board seats after it puts this money in.  So actually you're not getting any more influence.  I think its a harder sell to say to fans now - join FSS and 80% of your money will go to FFC and 20% will go to repaying a loan we took from the Government. 

2.  It's more the fact the nature of the organisation has changed without consultation with members.  We were never told that a % of our payments would be used to service a loan.

3.  Appreciate the clarification from Robocop.  I hadn't seen his post until after I posted

Don't agree with that, if you don't see how 26% of shareholding is  stronger than less than 10% then not sure there is much point discussing further. 

As for the structure changing - again the point of FSS is if you don't agree then you can vote people in and out, and or don't be a part of it. The fundamental selling point of FSS has always been the voice in the club, that has been only strengthened by this loan and surely that is the point of FF. If you want a donation scheme then donate there, if you want a voice then you join FSS.

[grahamstonbairn]

Well done to everyone involved at the FSS (past and present) for this tremendous achievement.

[Shodwall cat]

5 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

Bold statement from a man with your past 

Wtf does that have to do with this? Honestly we're talking Falkirk football club here nothing else.  The previous bod were a complete and utter disaster . 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

Was 350K the maximum available? Or is that just what we were able to apply for given the share situation (ie it's all we were reasonably able to say we 'needed')

Edited May 31, 2023 by FalkirkBairn2021

[RC_Bairn]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

Don't agree with that, if you don't see how 26% of shareholding is  stronger than less than 10% then not sure there is much point discussing further. 

As for the structure changing - again the point of FSS is if you don't agree then you can vote people in and out, and or don't be a part of it. The fundamental selling point of FSS has always been the voice in the club, that has been only strengthened by this loan and surely that is the point of FF. If you want a donation scheme then donate there, if you want a voice then you join FSS.

You don't have to agree with it.  Them's the facts.  The FSS has two board seats and will still have two board seats when it pumps in the 350k.  If you think that's having 'more of an influence' then I agree there is little point in discussing further.

[LatapyBairn.]

7 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

Bold statement from a man with your past 

No sure what you’re getting at but it sounds like a cheap shot. The point here is what Shadwell said is pretty accurate, trying to fling in personal shit only shows up your obvious attempt at deflection from what he said.