Skyline Drifter Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Would need to see the wording on the petition to be 100% on that Skyline. If HMRC are confident that these owings are due then a petition can be lodged. It would be down to the Judge reading the petition to accept or throw it out. Being a government related organisation HMRC's petition would, as they say 'have merit in consideration'. Really? I wasn't conscious of that. I've never seen administration applied for on the basis of a future debt but I'll take your word for it. However, it seems it IS existing debt from what's said above. Would that apply to a pre-pack administration, though? I think a pre-pack arrangement can happen immediately. A ‘pre-pack’ (pre-packaged sale) refers to an arrangement under which the sale of all or part of a company’s business or assets is negotiated with a purchaser prior to the appointment of an administrator. The sale will usually be effected by the administrator shortly after his/her appointment.. I confess I don't know enough about pre-pack administration but I don't see how that would get the existing company out of debt? It would allow a new company to set up and trade but unless the SFA / SPL have already agreed to a transfer of the playing licence that isn't going to help. The authorities refused to do so with Airdrieonians of course, though they did offer the possibility to Livingston when Massone was refusing to sell up. I can't believe the SFA have met on this issue already before it became public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? Very high IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? And what are the chances of them never emerging at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? Guaranteed in my mind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanni tikklar Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whats the point of rangers doing this now on a craig whyte owed tax bill.. Coming out of it quickly then getting done all over again when the £75m tax bill comes in.. Even if they start a new club or do a quick pre-pack, they'll still be due the £75m?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 HibeeJibee has pointed out a Scotsman piece on potential penalties for Rangers if it goes badly for them (15 points off for next three seasons, no Europe). The question is could Rangers as they stand actually recover from that? They'd have to sack most of their players to get the wage bill right down. With no Europe there will be no massive income from big Euro nights at Ibrox. Also, what happens to their season ticket sales that have been mortgaged to Ticketus? Does that debt disappear allowing them to bring in cash from season tickets going forward, or will they still have to service at least a proportion of that debt. Or will the ticket cash go straight to servicing a CVA? What I'm getting at is what kind of cashflow will the new Rangers have? Will they be able to afford to assemble a team that can challenge right at the top of the league, especially if they might have 15 points to make up every year, particularly with no European cash and potentially limited gate income. The worst case scenario, IMO, for Scottish football would be Rangers to escape with a 10 point deduction this season and essentially reform debt-free by the pre-pack message. That would be disgusting to me and to huge numbers of Scottish football fans. There needs to be accountability a sense of punishment for what, to me, amounts to cheating on an enormous scale. My club have suffered at the hands of this for years - Livingston, Gretna, Dundee et al - as well as losing a Scottish Cup semi final to a Rangers side assembled with money that should have been going to the Exchequer. If the worst that happens to Rangers is that they finish second (where they were going to finish anyway) and maybe shed some of their poorer players that would be an outrage that would drive fans of other clubs from the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Very high IMO. It's shady business practice to say the least and blatant cheating. Everyone might as well continue to spend money they don't have if the precedent is you can get away with it in the end without paying much if any of it back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? All too real unfortunately GiGi and it all depends on the definition of the term' relaitively' Dirty deals, if not ALREADY done, will be done to ensure the continuation, in some form or other, of the greatest bigot rivalry this country has to offer.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whats the point of rangers doing this now on a craig whyte owed tax bill.. Coming out of it quickly then getting done all over again when the £75m tax bill comes in.. Even if they start a new club or do a quick pre-pack, they'll still be due the £75m?? That would be in the mix as well as any other debts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p&b is a disgrace Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 HibeeJibee has pointed out a Scotsman piece on potential penalties for Rangers if it goes badly for them (15 points off for next three seasons, no Europe). The question is could Rangers as they stand actually recover from that? They'd have to sack most of their players to get the wage bill right down. With no Europe there will be no massive income from big Euro nights at Ibrox. Also, what happens to their season ticket sales that have been mortgaged to Ticketus? Does that debt disappear allowing them to bring in cash from season tickets going forward, or will they still have to service at least a proportion of that debt. Or will the ticket cash go straight to servicing a CVA? What I'm getting at is what kind of cashflow will the new Rangers have? Will they be able to afford to assemble a team that can challenge right at the top of the league, especially if they might have 15 points to make up every year, particularly with no European cash and potentially limited gate income. The worst case scenario, IMO, for Scottish football would be Rangers to escape with a 10 point deduction this season and essentially reform debt-free by the pre-pack message. That would be disgusting to me and to huge numbers of Scottish football fans. There needs to be accountability a sense of punishment for what, to me, amounts to cheating on an enormous scale. My club have suffered at the hands of this for years - Livingston, Gretna, Dundee et al - as well as losing a Scottish Cup semi final to a Rangers side assembled with money that should have been going to the Exchequer. If the worst that happens to Rangers is that they finish second (where they were going to finish anyway) and maybe shed some of their poorer players that would be an outrage that would drive fans of other clubs from the game. I think a lot of people will be disappointed along with you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.T Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What are the chances of Rangers emerging relatively unscathed a la Dundee last year? We didn't have debts as high as £75m though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's shady business practice to say the least and blatant cheating. Everyone might as well continue to spend money they don't have if the precedent is you can get away with it in the end without paying much if any of it back. Rangers will get away with it, not so sure clubs like ours would IIBH, it all depends on the intelligence of those taking clubs into admin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We didn't have debts as high as £75m though. Err, no, you had debts as high as £23m and an unpaid tax bill of £500,000 last year with relatively speaking is worse than Rangers. How much of that do you think Dundee ever paid back? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Fucking lovely. I can't wait for half 3, I expect P&B to capitulate with the amount of traffic/gifs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whats the point of rangers doing this now on a craig whyte owed tax bill.. Coming out of it quickly then getting done all over again when the £75m tax bill comes in.. Even if they start a new club or do a quick pre-pack, they'll still be due the £75m?? Nope - HMRC lose their money. RFC get liquidated. New RFC 2 is born and is 'invited' or applies to be part of the SPL by getting the license vacated by the loss of RFC 1. You can scrape shite aff yer shoe all you like - the smell never leaves ya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 I know as a St Mirren supporter I might stand accused of trying to be smug here - but I'm not. I'm making a serious point here... A couple of years ago St Mirren supporters watched our owner do everything he could to STOP our club going into administration. I'm sitting here today watching a weasel like Whyte do everything he can to get his club INTO administration. I actually feel the dry boak coming on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 But would the SFA not have to admit the new company as an SFA member as well as the spl approving it Also, where would UEFA stand in this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I've used my quota of greenies! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whats the point of rangers doing this now on a craig whyte owed tax bill.. Coming out of it quickly then getting done all over again when the £75m tax bill comes in.. Even if they start a new club or do a quick pre-pack, they'll still be due the £75m?? Well if the assets are sold to a new company it is the old company that would have the debt to HMRC. If the new company is allowed to 'buy' the league place and Ibrox maybe Craig Whyte is smarter than he's been given credit for in some quarters. Main thing that stinks for me is the fight between HMRC and Whyte to have an administrator appointed. Given that the administrator's duty is to protect the assets for the creditors it shouldn't really matter who is appointed,should it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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