The Arbroath Thread

[Tattie36]

1 minute ago, bridgeofweirdo said:

Don't be too hard on yourselves - we had to win you didn't  - simples!

We’ve had weeks of “must win” games where, aside from 25 minutes v Raith, we’ve barely even had a shot on target.

[glasgowlichtie23]

1 minute ago, ecto said:

Was absolutely not three at the back, it was absolutely gutless, whether this was a meaning less end of season game or not, it was an embarrassment of a performance, board need to read the room, they also have to think about season ticket sales, canna see a rush if McIntyre is still in charge 

Feel like it’s been made pretty clear that JMac will be in charge next season. Baffling decision by the board to make the choice to keep him this early. He offers absolutely 0 tactical value to this team and clearly isn’t respected by the majority of the senior players

[SimonLichtie]

2 minutes ago, glasgowlichtie23 said:

Are you serious? Has every game since the end of september been a dead rubber just cause we’ve got spanked? Surely we want to go out and win these “dead rubber” games to get a bit of confidence in us for the next season. 

Yes - today was a dead rubber for us and a huge game for Queen's.

No - every game since September has not been a dead rubber.

[lichtiemike]

We definitely lined up 3 CB’s and wingbacks today. 

[ExiledLichtie]

I'm already looking forward to the start of season dead rubbers later in the summer.  Presumably the logic is that every match is a dead rubber until McIntyre resigns?

[SimonLichtie]

22 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

I’d be interested to see if you could go back into your extensive database and find such an abject season/part of a season because I can’t remember anything this bad in 45+ years.

I already know that - the second half of the 2003-03 season. We were basically fielding a youth team and getting battered every week.... it was very painful

22 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

If we didn’t have that purple patch in September we would be sitting on 11 fucking points. That’s almost Brechin level of embarrassment.

See the thing is, you've taken 4 games out of season that we won. If you took Brechin's four best results out of their season they'd have finished with literally 0 points.  

22 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Simon, I know you’re the voice of reason and level headedness on here but even you must be well and truly scunnered by this.

These performances haven’t been like this since the games have become “dead rubbers”, it’s been like this for months. There is not one single iota of improvement - even when we still had a chance to stay up, we were getting humiliated week in week out.

I don't know why people think Jim McIntyre can make players who aren't Championship level quality better though? I also don't remember us being humiliated 'week in week out' this season at all. Half of them have been games we've lost by the odd goal because we dont have the level of quality in the team that other teams in this league do.

Last week, todays game, and next week literally mean nothing. That's why we tried a different formation today, why we have Ricky a start as captain in his last home game and why we haven't been playing our best striker for the last few weeks. There's no point in playing people who are definitely leaving, and because we've been pish over the last few months it's well worth trying things in terms of shape etc. and seeing how people cope with an eye to if they can do a job there next year.

I genuinely don't get why people would be complaining about things in these games. Of course, by all means entirely understandable in the months prior when we were pish and lost all of the games against the teams 'near' us, but how can today affect anyones opinion considering the above?

Ultimately people who wanted McIntyre out last week, want him out still, and will want him out next week. That's totally fine and obviously an extremely justifiable opinion, but that has to be based on the games prior to the irrelevant ones in which we're trying things/ giving players game time and playing a team in which it's their biggest game of the season?

I mean, last week he was getting blamed for using the term 'punter', and this week he's being blamed for Aaron Steele running like Robbie Raeside in a pool of treacle. That's nothing to do with tactics, training or anything else, that's to do with Aaron Steele being slow for starters, and coming back from a 4/5 month injury on top of that. There's plenty of issues, plenty of poor decisions and performances by players and managers a like, but we can't just sit about blaming Jim McIntyre for things that are quite clearly not his fault/ things that aren't really relevant.

[keptie]

3 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I'm already looking forward to the start of season dead rubbers later in the summer.  Presumably the logic is that every match is a dead rubber until McIntyre resigns?

Whit ??

[Tattie36]

Last seasons results weren’t important as we stayed up; our abject pre-season friendlies weren’t important; the shambolic League Cup wasn’t important and now we’ve moved onto “dead rubbers”.

Can someone tell me when our games become important again.

[1320Lichtie]

10 minutes ago, lichtiemike said:

We definitely lined up 3 CB’s and wingbacks today. 

Me and @SmokeyJoedebating this in WhatsApp Chat - the scores for both stacking up

 

Not that it really matters 

[SimonLichtie]

I guess the thing I'd put to everyone who wants McIntyre to leave now/ should have left in the previous months, I see the two paths as follows:

1 - Continue with him with the plans that have been building since January, in terms of players signing from outwith the club and from the current squad

2 - Rip it up, bring in a new manager and leave him 5 months behind everyone else in teams of preparation

So, lets say we start next season poorly and are having issues come October. People want the manager out. I'd much, much rather be in the position of having a squad that's been put in place over a period of time/ the manager has been given the amount of time needed and has failed than be in a position where we want a manager who's been in the door 3 months to be sacked when he's not been given a fair crack at it.

Manager leaves in October - one we've given a year and has been given more than enough time and has failed or one who has been given 3 months and not given a fair crack at it?

Personally I think it's much better this way, and I think people massively underestimate the planning that goes into a new season between January and June.

[SmokeyJoe]

I didn’t expect jim to come in and make poor players great. The least I’d expect is for us to be hard to beat and show at least some fight which I haven’t seen either of for more than 20 minutes spells. 

[ExiledLichtie]

9 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

I already know that - the second half of the 2003-03 season. We were basically fielding a youth team and getting battered every week.... it was very painful

And what did we do the following season?  Fresh start or continuity?  And how did that work?

[ExiledLichtie]

11 minutes ago, keptie said:

Whit ??

 

10 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Last seasons results weren’t important as we stayed up; our abject pre-season friendlies weren’t important; the shambolic League Cup wasn’t important and now we’ve moved onto “dead rubbers”.

Can someone tell me when our games become important again.

Start of next season won't be important either, as we'll all be counting down to when McIntyre leaves.  Then caretaker matches can't be judged fairly.  Then we need to give any new manager time, so we can't judge his first few games.  Then its too early to judge as the manager hasn't had the summer to get his own players in, and we'll be back to dead rubbers as we head down to league 2.  

[Tattie36]

I look at football managers pretty much in the same way as anyone in any other job. We’ve all worked with people, even ones with great cvs, who are obviously out of their depth or a poor fit.

I’ve said this before but I can’t remember a manager ever who has gone from atrocious to even passable, and I’m not just talking about at Arbroath.

More than happy to hire and fire if it means we get the right man eventually. Why not? It happens in every other walk of life. All of our most successful managers did well from the off, they weren’t eased in with months of pumpings.

 

[Broath Boy]

Straight out right now sack him, first time I’ve come out with that, I’m all for give the new manager time, he has had 20 odd games to even make us competitive, that display is shocking McIntyre, we need a meeting without the manager, btw I’ve been at Gayf for over 50 years, he is going to ruin a well respected club, I don’t care how much it takes to punt him, his body language is wetter than a limp Farfar bridie, sorry Jim you had your chance, your negative football is putting the town off.

[keptie]

3 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

 

Start of next season won't be important either, as we'll all be counting down to when McIntyre leaves.  Then caretaker matches can't be judged fairly.  Then we need to give any new manager time, so we can't judge his first few games.  Then its too early to judge as the manager hasn't had the summer to get his own players in, and we'll be back to dead rubbers as we head down to league 2.  

Judging time starts in the league cup and the league when it starts next season. Simple. 

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, keptie said:

Judging time starts in the league cup and the league when it starts next season. Simple. 

 

If the manager was to change I wouldn’t be complaining but basically yeah this 

[ExiledLichtie]

3 minutes ago, keptie said:

Judging time starts in the league cup and the league when it starts next season. Simple. 

Not the league cup games surely? They are effectively pre-season friendlies.

[keptie]

Just now, ExiledLichtie said:

Not the league cup games surely? They are effectively pre-season friendlies.

The Campbells didn't take them seriously but they are not friendlies as far as i'm concerned.

[SimonLichtie]

One other thing I'd add - the stuff about 'losing the dressing room' etc. is complete and utter guess work/ assumptions on people part. Everything factual that has come out, key/ long term players re-signing and at least one quality player also coming in from outside the club points to the opposite.

I also agree that, for once, the League Cup is important this season. Not in terms of results, but in terms of how we're shaping up and the performances. In previous seasons we've basically used it to give players game time and treated them as friendlies, understandably, but this time they'll be viewed much differently.

Ultimately we'll know if we're going to stick or twist management wise after 9 or so league games. Between now and then I'll be hoping we sign well and hoping we can put together a consistent system that works for us from the start as opposed to Dick going with bizarre formations throughout June/ July in friendlies/ League Cup games a like before going with the system he was always going to go with. I don't think long term Jim McIntyre will work out for us, but I'm not going to blame him for everything that goes wrong and ignore the positives/ just react to them with 'aye, but McIntyre'.