The Arbroath Thread

[DUAFC]

3 minutes ago, keptie said:

The Campbells didn't take them seriously but they are not friendlies as far as i'm concerned.

Of course they're not friendlies  (the clues in "League Cup" ).

However as the cup ties move earlier and earlier into July, they're understandably treated as such.

[RedLichtie86]

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Is also like.....

You can try and make players play better but you cant make them play better.

This squad is nowhere near good enough to be in the championship and the results show. Too many individual mistakes, bad passes, slow reactions etc have led to all this. The manager has made mistakes but he has been made the scapegoat for the previous 18 months of utters shite signings and failures.

[ExiledLichtie]

5 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Is also like.....

You can try and make players play better but you cant make them play better.

This squad is nowhere near good enough to be in the championship and the results show. Too many individual mistakes, bad passes, slow reactions etc have led to all this. The manager has made mistakes but he has been made the scapegoat for the previous 18 months of utters shite signings and failures.

[Leicesterlichtie]

I get that the blaming culture in football always rests on the manager when things go pear shape. Obviously I don't get some of the starting XI or decisions that seem to be made on the pitch, but players should also be accountable. Their confidence will also be very low with all the poor performances and results and that is probably adding to mistakes being made. 

The lack of continuity in the back 5 doesn't help either when Gaston,  Little, Walker TOB and Lyon have constantly been in and out of the side. Gaston might not be at his best but he could add that bit of experience to help some of the inexperienced players like Teale, Delaney and Steele. 

Whatever happens next season, JM will be damned if he does well and even more damned if he doesn't. 

[Tattie36]

It’s funny how the goalposts move - I remember being heavily criticised on here last summer for showing (since vindicated) concern at how poor we were in pre-season and league cup games. “These games aren’t important, Campbell Must be judged on league performances only” was the gist of the replies.

I understand the argument about being so far along with a process and having to go back to square 1 if we get a new boss but, using that same argument, can’t we also say that every week/month that we stick with McIntyre is giving a new management team less time to get it right?

I think we all know how this is likely to end so can’t we just end it now instead of prolonging the agony.

[kentish]

46 minutes ago, Broath Boy said:

Straight out right now sack him, first time I’ve come out with that, I’m all for give the new manager time, he has had 20 odd games to even make us competitive, that display is shocking McIntyre, we need a meeting without the manager, btw I’ve been at Gayf for over 50 years, he is going to ruin a well respected club, I don’t care how much it takes to punt him, his body language is wetter than a limp Farfar bridie, sorry Jim you had your chance, your negative football is putting the town off.

One thing about Jim Mc that has always struck me football asides is his body language and general inanimate stance. That worries me more even than week after week defeats. I just don't see him inspiring anyone. Every great manager has that about them.

[glasgowlichtie23]

Our league position over the season if anyone’s interested If I had to look at it so do yous 

[RedLichtie86]

12 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

It’s funny how the goalposts move - I remember being heavily criticised on here last summer for showing (since vindicated) concern at how poor we were in pre-season and league cup games. “These games aren’t important, Campbell Must be judged on league performances only” was the gist of the replies.

I understand the argument about being so far along with a process and having to go back to square 1 if we get a new boss but, using that same argument, can’t we also say that every week/month that we stick with McIntyre is giving a new management team less time to get it right?

I think we all know how this is likely to end so can’t we just end it now instead of prolonging the agony.

 

Usually managers are judged on the teams they have built. Yes he has had 1 tranfer window to make changes but we all know that was far from a normal one and one we are unlikely to see happen again.

The prep for next season is in full swing. Gallagher is signed up, a number of players re-signed for next. With 6 or 7 more to come in or re-sign.

A more professional approach to pre-season training, friendlies and League Cup to prepare for the League One campaign. Any new manager is going to have to try and sort all that out in such a short time that it would most likely be a  clusterfuck.

[Tattie36]

2 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Usually managers are judged on the teams they have built. Yes he has had 1 tranfer window to make changes but we all know that was far from a normal one and one we are unlikely to see happen again.

 

The prep for next season is in full swing. Gallagher is signed up, a number of players re-signed for next. With 6 or 7 more to come in or re-sign.

A more professional approach to pre-season training, friendlies and League Cup to prepare for the League One campaign. Any new manager is going to have to try and sort all that out in such a short time that it would most likely be a  clusterfuck.

Aye but we’ve been told for a very long time that most of our established players at the club were the best part-time players in Scotland.

He didn’t inherit a bunch of duds but his signings and management has made us worse.

IMO the last two years has ground us all down to the point where we can’t even see just how fucking terrible things are. I have not seen one single iota of improvement since McIntyre came in.

[ExiledLichtie]

This is absolutely delusional thinking.  This idea that unless we have McIntyre, pre-season will be a "clusterfuck" is just nonsense.  The idea that we need a complete squad clearout, but at the same time that we need consistency so these players will re-sign. 

We haven't seen a single sign that McIntyre is the right man.  Not one single sign.  After a promising beginning, he's made things worse. 

First it was an injury crisis (which was fair, and also where he was best), then he didnt know his best team yet after all the new signings, then our players needed time to get match fit...now they are dead rubbers so it doesn't matter anyway.  Is there no end to the excuses that people will make?

Its not a team in flux, he's been playing a settled team for weeks now.  Its getting worse. 

They are not terrible players either.  McKenna is not a terrible player.  Bird is not a terrible player.  Slater is not a terrible player.  Steele is not a terrible player.  Delaney is not a terrible player.  Gaston is not a terrible player.  They might not be the best squad in the championship, but they are better than the results in recent weeks.

I have absolutely no doubt that come next summer, the same people will be coming up with new excuses for our no doubt terrible start to the season.  

[Blawin a Hoolie]

Good to see our Manager at FT stay and acknowledge the fans/punters…..is what I wanted to say…. but no he’s away up the tunnel as quickly as possible not even a look back …says a lot.

doesnt feel to me that he understand the values of the club.

not heard a single good word about him before he signed/when he signed and up to now… yet the Board (or someone on the board) believe in their heads and hearts that he will turn it around after a holiday and a pre-season.

jeezy peeps WTF is going on.

And as for dead rubbers…..where’s the pride for goodness sake.

Managers responsibility end of and it’s clear he isn’t a good fit here….get rid and get rid soon otherwise it will be another crap season.

 

[SimonLichtie]

7 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

We haven't seen a single sign that McIntyre is the right man.  Not one single sign.  After a promising beginning, he's made things worse. 

Less than 2 weeks ago we announced he'd signed the best part time striker in the country! You don't think that's promising at all, not a good sign at all?

Signing the best part time striker in the country for the next 2 seasons is incredibly promising and rather exciting ahead of the new campaign. Jim McIntyre being the manager doesn't change that.

[RedLichtie86]

17 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Aye but we’ve been told for a very long time that most of our established players at the club were the best part-time players in Scotland.

He didn’t inherit a bunch of duds but his signings and management has made us worse.

IMO the last two years has ground us all down to the point where we can’t even see just how fucking terrible things are. I have not seen one single iota of improvement since McIntyre came in.

They were. But all good thinhs come to an end. Players get older, slower and lose that bit of quality that makes them good enough for the championship.

Up until the end of 21/22 team our squads have numerous Full time loan players to add more quality to the squads. Players such as Jack and Chris Hamilton, Wighton, Nouble, Dowds, etc that contribute heavily to our time in tbr Championship.

After the loan markets arse fell out, a ludicrous Hybrid transfer policy that the management brought in and them ruling out any part time player in Scotland as not good enough, our time in this league was numbered. 

 

The quality of player we have is not good enough to play in the Championship. Its all about using this summer to stabalise and rebuild the squad. And finding players that can add more quality to the squad than what have been signed in the past 4 transfer windows (Corfe, Turan, Jacobs, Fosu, El-Mhanni, etc)

[ExiledLichtie]

18 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

Less than 2 weeks ago we announced he'd signed the best part time striker in the country! You don't think that's promising at all, not a good sign at all?

Signing the best part time striker in the country for the next 2 seasons is incredibly promising and rather exciting ahead of the new campaign. Jim McIntyre being the manager doesn't change that.

It is indeed good news, and a better manager will get more out of him.  Jim McIntyre not being the manager doesnt change that.   

[JoseMarooniho]

2 hours ago, lichtiemike said:

We definitely lined up 3 CB’s and wingbacks today. 

That’s what I saw. 

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, SimonLichtie said:

Less than 2 weeks ago we announced he'd signed the best part time striker in the country! You don't think that's promising at all, not a good sign at all?

Signing the best part time striker in the country for the next 2 seasons is incredibly promising and rather exciting ahead of the new campaign. Jim McIntyre being the manager doesn't change that.

That’s a very bold statement.

It’s not long ago some were confidently proclaiming that we had all the best part-time players in Scotland. Players dip in and out of form, goalscorers in particular.

I do think it’s a good signing though but that doesn’t buy a guy with an 8.5% win record any credit I’m afraid.

Olusanya does a good job for St Mirren but he was horrific for us. A decent player can be ruined by a poor manager.

Edited April 27 by Tattie36

[ExiledLichtie]

1 hour ago, RedLichtie86 said:

 

The quality of player we have is not good enough to play in the Championship. Its all about using this summer to stabalise and rebuild the squad. And finding players that can add more quality to the squad than what have been signed in the past 4 transfer windows (Corfe, Turan, Jacobs, Fosu, El-Mhanni, etc)

Last summer's signings (off the top of my head):

Norey - hasn't put a foot wrong when played
Bird - probably the best "proper" striker we've signed (not loaned) in years
Lyon - hasn't put a foot wrong when played
Steele - still raw, but definitely showed potential
Stowe - got more minutes than expected, also showed good potential
Adams - would have 100% conceded less goals than Boruc
Hylton - excellent
Turan - had chances, didn't really show enough 
McIntosh - has done well
Slater - I'm still unsure on him

Are you telling me that we didn't sign players of a good enough standard in the summer?  Nonsense.  We didn't sign defenders, and that's a failing, but to retcon it as 4 terrible transfer windows is just absolute nonsense.  Good players were signed in the summer.  I note that almost all your examples were for the absolutely terrible transfer window of 2022.  Even Turan has looked okay on the very rare occasion he got a chance up front.  Just didn't look good enough to displace Bird, McIntosh and Hylton.  Steele and Stowe were raw, but both showed that they are good players.  They played more than expected though.

You can't just invent your own history, we all witnessed it too!
 

[1320Lichtie]

This is just going round in circles 

 

There are people who are willing to give him a chance because the club have backed him

 

And then there are people who will be shouting for him to be sacked every day until he leaves the club regardless of what happens

 

All the back and forth stuff can just be wrapped because the above isn’t changing 

[SimonLichtie]

11 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

There are people who are willing to give him a chance because the club have backed him

 

I totally agree with you but I'd add that I feel it's also mainly because he is staying for the summer. It's a decision that's been made. There's no point in discussing/ going round in circles on it. Why can't we look at new signings/ contract extensions/ games etc. more objectively than 'aye, but McIntyre. Shite'. I think the vast majority think he'll leave the club in October or so..... if that's the case, it's extremely important we're in the best possible 'bad' position as it were - with good players on the books. I really hope once this season is over we can discuss all the things that'll happen, positive and negative, over the summer without constantly going round in circles on McIntyre out and focus on next season as opposed to going over what is and isn't McIntyre's fault this season, which has obviously been done to death. Surely we all want to sign good players/ put together a good squad knowing that either it works under McIntyre or he's gone a quarter into the campaign and we have a good base for another manager to work with....

[RedLichtie86]

25 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Last summer's signings (off the top of my head):

Norey - hasn't put a foot wrong when played
Bird - probably the best "proper" striker we've signed (not loaned) in years
Lyon - hasn't put a foot wrong when played
Steele - still raw, but definitely showed potential
Stowe - got more minutes than expected, also showed good potential
Adams - would have 100% conceded less goals than Boruc
Hylton - excellent
Turan - had chances, didn't really show enough 
McIntosh - has done well
Slater - I'm still unsure on him

Are you telling me that we didn't sign players of a good enough standard in the summer?  Nonsense.  We didn't sign defenders, and that's a failing, but to retcon it as 4 terrible transfer windows is just absolute nonsense.  Good players were signed in the summer.  I note that almost all your examples were for the absolutely terrible transfer window of 2022.  Even Turan has looked okay on the very rare occasion he got a chance up front.  Just didn't look good enough to displace Bird, McIntosh and Hylton.  Steele and Stowe were raw, but both showed that they are good players.  They played more than expected though.

You can't just invent your own history, we all witnessed it too!
 

As clear as day yes.

Hence why they were not performing under Dick and also not under McIntyre. I have not said every player signed has been shite but the amount of Championship quality players has been very low.

Norey - signed from the 8th Tier of English football. May have done alright but not a Championship quality player.

Bird - signed from the English 5th tier. Has shown his abilty to play in the Championship in games and in others been posted missing.

Lyon - A decent player but not a standout. A squad player. Nothing more. Also signed in September so behind the curve on fitness

Steele - Promising player but L2 to Championship plus a bad injury have impacted him. Not Championship level.

Stowe - signed from Toer 6 of Scottish football. Well.oit of his depth and nowhere close to being a Championship player.

Adams - a 6th tier goalkeeper that is a lunatic off the field. If he was that good he would have been playing well above the 6th Tier before now. Guy is in his 30's which tells you all you need to know about how good he is.

Hylton - A great player for us. If we had him signed for longer we would have been in a stronger position. His loss greatly affected our chances as it was near imposible to replace.

Turan - Had chances but offered next to nothing and not good enough for L1 let alone the Championship

McIntosh - Done well but without support struggles. Can do a job in the Championship in a stronger team but not in one that struggles.

Slater - Has been poor for most of the season. Set pieces are dreadful. Defensively and passing have been weak. Is he a Championship player..... nope. 

We have others at the club that have been good in the Championship when the team has played well and with quality FT players in the squad to help. But thats gone now. That was 2 years ago. The players we have from then now struggle. Injuries, age, etc have all taken their toll.

We didnt have a squad capable of playing in this league. Too many weak points (lack of defenders, small weak midfield, lack of width, no creativity, etc) that FT teams exploited with ease. 1/2 passes and they are in on goal yet we need 3/4 just to get past the halfway line with the ball. Then more to get in the final third if we are lucky enough to pass to our own player.