When will indyref2 happen?

[1320Lichtie]

Because London will still be the financial capital of Europe once this is all sorted. Countries like America who have a big say in things prefer Uk as it's an easy and welcoming place to deal with. Finance is global and London is far too well established to implode although bits and pieces may move elsewhere. Most institutions up here have their main offices down south so the bulk can be shifted and leave a branch office up here. I suppose in the event of independence and we become like Portugal they can send their operations here instead of India. 

What even is this

Why do people think everybody and their dug would just leave Scotland because Scottish people decided they wanted to choose who they're governed by?

There'll still be business here for these companies. f**k sake.

[Gordon EF]

34 minutes ago, HTG said:

You're not perchance referring to the sashes some fathers once wore are you? 

Well there is that more 'overt' emotional attachment. There's plenty less overt attachment going around. There are plenty of 'heart over head' unionists in Scotland and I'd guess that is much more prevalent among the older generations.

It's a tired old trope that support for independence is based entirely on emotional nationalism and support for the union is based on a cold hard study of the facts and one that unionists push relentlessly. It doesn't take too many discussions with No voters to dispel that myth though.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

4 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

This thread is an example that too much of modern politics is driven by emotion.

The rise of UKIP, the SNP, Donald trump and more is an emotional one.

It's more the case that a major economic crisis will breed a dissatisfaction with the status quo and an increase in the appeal of radical solutions. You could add Corbyn and Sanders to that list.

Solutions aren't intrinsically good, bad, right or wrong by virtue of being radical.

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by topcat(The most tip top)

[DI Bruce Robertson]

I hope, for the people of Ayr, he is exiled in Kilmarnock.

[Antlion]

27 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Because London will still be the financial capital of Europe once this is all sorted. Countries like America who have a big say in things prefer Uk as it's an easy and welcoming place to deal with. Finance is global and London is far too well established to implode although bits and pieces may move elsewhere. Most institutions up here have their main offices down south so the bulk can be shifted and leave a branch office up here. I suppose in the event of independence and we become like Portugal they can send their operations here instead of India. 

This farce of a post is what happens when Scottish regionalists try and read from the 2014 Better Together playbook, hoping we won't notice how their own beloved UK has pretty much taken a dump on its pages.

[Dons_1988]

It's more the case that a major economic crisis will breed a dissatisfaction with the status quo and an increase in the appeal of radical solutions. You could add Corbyn and Sanders to that list.

Solutions aren't intrinsically good, bad, right or wrong by virtue of being radical.

 

Absolutely. You put it far more eloquently than me.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

17 minutes ago, kilbowie2002 said:

Yep I couldnt agree more, im about as non emotionally attached to Scotland as can be but a fierce supporter of independence.

I dont support the scottish national team dont like the embarrassing 'wha's like us' shite that gets served up to represent Scotland internationally. For me its anything but emotional, its about doing whats best for us, we are nothing culturally like England in anyway

I understand that the Tories pander to the English electorate and indeed their policies appeal to them, however for a very long time Scotland has been a very different place to England, culturally, socially, politically and in just about any other way you care to think about it, with the exception of the English language I struggle to think of anything which links us together. Notions of 'britishness' 'blighty' the bbc, 'great british bake off' all that nonsense, its not British, its English,

Ive no problem with that, I just dont associate with it in anyway. Everything that I feel is good about Scotland, our social conscious, our inclusiveness, our warmth, our Education provision, our scientific minds, our legal system, our NHS is all markedly different to that of England. The UK clearly does not work for Scotland, constantly made out to be 'scroungers' and 'lucky to get money off England' its a mentality thats not only endemic in the English Psyche but one which they do not hide, this notion that its only a small minority who feel that way is nonsense.

My vision for Scotland is not even a country run by the SNP with statues of Alec Salmond everywhere etc etc, its of the kind of country that we could be proud of, unlike just now. The reality is, we are not going to get rid of Theresa May, Austerity, BoJo, Brexit etc etc anytime soon without making a drastic change, May is utterly pandering to the mouth foaming UKIP little englander masses, its not going to change without Independence.

FTFY

[AyrExile]

44 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

For Americans and others London is attractive as a European base because it's in the EU but has a population that speaks English native and an existing pool of talent and support.

Indyref2 happening presupposes a hard Brexit which would leave an EU Edinburgh well placed to fight over the carcass with Frankfurt and Paris and given the differences in scale it wouldn't take too many scraps to make a big difference here.
 

London is also attractive as places like France are difficult to deal with. Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin will grow through this but I still see London being a larger financial centre. The success of the EU project is still far from certain and has many ongoing challenges. Surely the odds of both a hard brexit and Scotland being admitted to the Eu must be quite low I'd have thought. 

 

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, AyrExile said:

Because London will still be the financial capital of Europe once this is all sorted. Countries like America who have a big say in things prefer Uk as it's an easy and welcoming place to deal with. Finance is global and London is far too well established to implode although bits and pieces may move elsewhere. Most institutions up here have their main offices down south so the bulk can be shifted and leave a branch office up here. I suppose in the event of independence and we become like Portugal they can send their operations here instead of India. 

 

This is the most hopelessly nationalistic post on the entire forum. You can hear Rule Britannia faintly in the background while you read it.

 

Anyway stoked for indyref2. Can't wait to bottle it again.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

16 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

London is also attractive as places like France are difficult to deal with. Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin will grow through this but I still see London being a larger financial centre. The success of the EU project is still far from certain and has many ongoing challenges. Surely the odds of both a hard brexit and Scotland being admitted to the Eu must be quite low I'd have thought. 

Nicola Sturgeon's announcement was for a referendum if we're going to be taken out of the single market.

So if we're discussing a future where the referendum happens then we're discussing a future where hard Brexit happened.

If we manage to retain all the most important privileges of EU membership then the SNP's draft can remain a draft.

Which is fair enough.

The rationale for Indyref2 so soon after the first one is that the question will be being asked in a fundamentally different context from Indyref1

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Yes will win this one comfortably. The yoons will be seething messes.
Glorious!

[Lex]

Yes will win this one comfortably. The yoons will be seething messes.
Glorious!

If you don't win you can always disappear from the forum again, like you did last time.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, kilbowie2002 said:

The UK clearly does not work for Scotland, constantly made out to be 'scroungers' and 'lucky to get money off England' its a mentality thats not only endemic in the English Psyche but one which they do not hide, this notion that its only a small minority who feel that way is nonsense. 

Yep. Heard this plenty of times from folk since I moved down to England. It's especially farcical coming from folk who are obviously not 'net contributors' to the economy. 

[Deanburn Dave]

Indy 1 was a total clusterfcuk of deceit and misinformation.............

Indy 2 will be a hell of a lot worse.            Main factor is the SNP will never be able to get a guarantee that Scotland can stay/join the EU if they win Indy 2 and that will be enough to swing the vote to a NO.    

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

 

Sorry what exactly was moronic?

I accept the point that the SNP have won elections so it might not be right to claim they are solely an emotional vote.

However, there is definitely a Scottish demographic that vote SNP on emotion as the party of independence

 

You claimed that this 'emotion' was a recent development of modern politics, citing Scottish independence alongside an EU vote: while disregarding the fact that the very Union under discussion has been based on the 'emotion' of British nationalism for fully 300 years. So... really not a modern political development then. Which is why your pop political science musings were discredited and dismissed for being moronic. 

Pretty straightforward stuff. 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, AyrExile said:

. Countries like America who have a big say in things prefer Uk as it's an easy and welcoming place to deal with. 

That'll be why major American corporations like Apple already base their EU operations in, err, Ireland. 

[AyrExile]

4 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

That'll be why major American corporations like Apple already base their EU operations in, err, Ireland. 

Actually a lot of large US companies base their global operations there. Nothing to do with the lovely scenery and pints of guiness but makes for some good tax dodging. 

[Mr Heliums]

1 minute ago, AyrExile said:

Actually a lot of large US companies base their global operations there. Nothing to do with the lovely scenery and pints of guiness but makes for some good tax dodging. 

And access to the single market.

[Dons_1988]

You claimed that this 'emotion' was a recent development of modern politics, citing Scottish independence alongside an EU vote: while disregarding the fact that the very Union under discussion has been based on the 'emotion' of British nationalism for fully 300 years. So... really not a modern political development then. Which is why your pop political science musings were discredited and dismissed for being moronic. 

Pretty straightforward stuff. 

I claimed nothing of the sort but you carry on chasing whatever bone you think you're chasing.

I do think people's choices are driven too much by emotion.

I said I support independence but not at any cost. I don't feel the SNP made the economic argument last time round.

If that makes me moronic well... you're not worth any of my time min. Night.

[John Lambies Doos]

If you don't win you can always disappear from the forum again, like you did last time.

Says the man who vanished after relegation