When will indyref2 happen?

[RedRob72]

What's your stance on the singing of songs with ****** blood in them?

You'll be pushed to find anyone singing where I sit![emoji6] The subway Loyal are out by 4.40pm, we're usually doon the stairs about Six-ish!

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

EU accounts for 50% of UK exports

UK accounts for 7% of EU exports

And why would any country make a better deal to gain access to the UK market rather than the entire EU?

[WILLIEA]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

And why would any country make a better deal to gain access to the UK market rather than the entire EU?

Well! They wouldn't would they?

[Granny Danger]

24 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

EU accounts for 50% of UK exports

UK accounts for 7% of EU exports

You do realise that these figures are meaningless don't you?  Given the relative size of the EU and the U.K. economies percentages are misleading, the only meaningful comparison is actual value.

[Bishop Briggs]

24 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

EU accounts for 50% of UK exports

UK accounts for 7% of EU exports

It's the percentage of the French, German Dutch and Belgian exports that counts.

Then there is the volume of UK exports that go through their ports.

[welshbairn]

26 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

It's the percentage of the French, German Dutch and Belgian exports that counts.

Then there is the volume of UK exports that go through their ports.

Not to get a good deal with Europe it's not. One country, one vote.

[AUFC90]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Not to get a good deal with Europe it's not. One country, one vote.

This, considering Briggs argues that the percentage does in fact matter when talking about trade flowing across the Scotland/England border, I'm sure he'll agree.

[WILLIEA]

31 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You do realise that these figures are meaningless don't you?  Given the relative size of the EU and the U.K. economies percentages are misleading, the only meaningful comparison is actual value.

Not entirely meaningless ! It's a lot easier to weather disruption to 7% of your business than 50% no matter what the relative values.

[WILLIEA]

33 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

It's the percentage of the French, German Dutch and Belgian exports that counts.

Then there is the volume of UK exports that go through their ports.

Belgium /ports

[German Jag]

11 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

Belgium /ports

Antwerp. 3rd busiest port in Europe after Rotterdam & Hamburg.

[WILLIEA]

1 minute ago, German Jag said:

Antwerp. 3rd busiest port in Europe after Rotterdam & Hamburg.

Indeed! But it's business is in no way dependent on UK

[Bishop Briggs]

31 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Not to get a good deal with Europe it's not. One country, one vote.

And who dominates EU policy? The Germans and the French. The Walloons tried to stop the Canadian deal but they succumbed in the end.

In practice, Single Market membership (not trade) is the "hard" Brexit policy. Only the most hardened Euro-Nats, like Sturgeon, want to keep the customs union's 12,750 external tariffs and for the EU to dictate an independent Scotland's trade policies. 

[AUFC90]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

And who dominates EU policy? The Germans and the French. The Walloons tried to stop the Canadian deal but they succumbed in the end.

In practice, Single Market membership (not trade) is the "hard" Brexit policy. Only the most hardened Euro-Nats, like Sturgeon, want to keep the customs union's 12,750 external tariffs and for the EU to dictate an independent Scotland's trade policies. 

When arguing against Scotland gaining membership you insisted that everyone from Greece to Poland would have an equal say.

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

When arguing against Scotland gaining membership you insisted that everyone from Greece to Poland would have an equal say.

A trade deal is very different issue to Scottish EU or Single Market membership. Spain is very hostile to Scotland joining the EU or the Single Market - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/22/spain-rejects-nicola-sturgeon-brexit-plan-scotland-seemingly/

"Jorge Toledo, the Spanish Secretary of State for the European Union, flatly rejected the First Minister’s proposals for a differentiated deal for Scotland whereby it would stay in the single market even if the rest of the UK comes out.

"A leading Spanish MEP told the Telegraph last month that his government would oppose any special arrangement for Scotland for fear of encouraging its own separatist movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

"Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish Prime Minister, has previously confirmed that Madrid would oppose any separate deal for Scotland."

[AUFC90]

10 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

A trade deal is very different issue to Scottish EU or Single Market membership. Spain is very hostile to Scotland joining the EU or the Single Market - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/22/spain-rejects-nicola-sturgeon-brexit-plan-scotland-seemingly/

"Jorge Toledo, the Spanish Secretary of State for the European Union, flatly rejected the First Minister’s proposals for a differentiated deal for Scotland whereby it would stay in the single market even if the rest of the UK comes out.

"A leading Spanish MEP told the Telegraph last month that his government would oppose any special arrangement for Scotland for fear of encouraging its own separatist movements in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

"Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish Prime Minister, has previously confirmed that Madrid would oppose any separate deal for Scotland."

Mariano Rajoy never confirmed anything, indeed his aid even went to the trouble of explaining that the UK constitution is different and if the UK agrees to an independent Scotland then who are they to argue.

ETA, it wasn't his aid, it was the spanish foreign minister.   “If the two parts of the United Kingdom are in agreement that [Scottish independence] is in accord with their constitutional arrangement, written or unwritten, Spain would have nothing to say, we would simply maintain that it does not affect us.”

The constitutional arrangements of the United Kingdom are one thing, those of Spain another, and it is their own business if they decide to separate from one another.”  

It's not different, Brexit deals require consent of all members just as Scotland gaining entry to the EU does. Now you are saying that only the words of a few members matter when you've been adamant that even the smallest, shittiest EU member could block an independent Scotland. Fact is Spanish, or any politician for that matter can say whatever they like before a referendum.Means precisely zero.

Edited January 8, 2017 by AUFC90

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Not entirely meaningless ! It's a lot easier to weather disruption to 7% of your business than 50% no matter what the relative values.

It's kind of the point of a trading block

[AUFC90]

Anyway, seeing as you believe every statement from self serving politicians and do not believe in real politik, i'll assume you believe this as well.

The German Chancellor said that giving Britain full access to free trade across Europe's border but allowing it to restrict the movement of people would lead to a free-for-all.

"If we don't say that full access to the internal market is linked to full acceptance of the four fundamental freedoms, a process will spread in Europe in which everyone does what they want," she said.

[Granny Danger]

54 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

Not entirely meaningless ! It's a lot easier to weather disruption to 7% of your business than 50% no matter what the relative values.

Aye I think it is.  EU constituent members will look to their own interests first.  That doesn't mean I don't think that collectively these countries will want to make it easy for the UK, they won't.  I think countries like Germany, Spain and France* will want to ensure that other existing EU countries don't follow the Brexit route; if they look at the bigger picture things will be made tough for the UK.

As I've previously said, anyone who thinks that there will be access to the single market without free movement of labour is totally deluded.

* depends on what happens in France over the coming months.

[DublinMagyar]

You'll be pushed to find anyone singing where I sit![emoji6] The subway Loyal are out by 4.40pm, we're usually doon the stairs about Six-ish!

Yes but what is YOUR stance on the matter?

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Aye I think it is.  EU constituent members will look to their own interests first.  That doesn't mean I don't think that collectively these countries will want to make it easy for the UK, they won't.  I think countries like Germany, Spain and France* will want to ensure that other existing EU countries don't follow the Brexit route; if they look at the bigger picture things will be made tough for the UK.

As I've previously said, anyone who thinks that there will be access to the single market without free movement of labour is totally deluded.

* depends on what happens in France over the coming months.

It could be interesting if the Right gains power in a few EU countries on a platform of getting rid of free movement. Would Brexiters still be so keen about leaving if their main gripe was null and void, given the huge challenges, uncertainty and risks?