ICTJohnboy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: I'd rather see us go it totally alone and negotiate our own agreements on everything than be independent in name only. FWIW I voted for independence on indyref1. At the moment though I would not currently repeat that on indyref2. So you would rather see us go it totally alone, but you would vote against it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 So you would rather see us go it totally alone, but you would vote against it?If the question was independence from the UK but seek to join the EU and nothing else then I wouldn't likely vote for that.If the question was independence and create our own agreements with other countries on what is best for Scotland then I could go for that.What is best is obviously very subjective. It's why I'd like a few choices on any ballot or 2 referendum. Ref 1RemainLeaveIf leave then ref 2Join the EUDon't join the EU. Think the outcome of that would be hard to disagree with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They didn’t want every fact and figure just a few more than we’re provided. Look at how the Brexit shambles has turned out and exactly the reason why people should be provided with as much info as possible to judge. Having now witnessed parts of Brexit and the complexities of leaving a forty year old union, I’m surprised you think leaving a 300 odd year old one would be a formality I never said it would be a formality but it would be done by a group of people wanting whats best for the country not a bunch of charlatans pandering to the right wing of their party. Thats why Brexit is a mess. It could be so much easier but Theresa May and her ilk would rather pursue a Brexit which satisfies the minority of eejits than a Brexit that is good for the country. Im surprised that you think that 100 or so polticians elected by the Scottish people won't do a better job than Tories that don't give a shite about the North of England never mind Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Without a doubt Brexit is also a risk factor for Scotland and predicting the future. As we currently have 4 times the trade with Uk than Eu then not sure why independence would be any easier Aye coz England wont trade with the only nation it shares a land border with, a country that will be in the EU. You know...the same EU that England wants a trade deal with. You think the North of England is a shithole now. It will be a wasteland without cross border trade with it's nearest neighbour. Theres not using common sense then there's you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Suppose adopting the Euro will solve the currency issue. Not sure how NS will handle being told what to do by the German Chancellor though.Independent but not independent. As opposed to the likes of Greece and Italy. Scotland like other Northern European high export economies would most likely do well out of an artificially deflated Euro. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If the question was independence from the UK but seek to join the EU and nothing else then I wouldn't likely vote for that.If the question was independence and create our own agreements with other countries on what is best for Scotland then I could go for that.What is best is obviously very subjective. It's why I'd like a few choices on any ballot or 2 referendum. Ref 1RemainLeaveIf leave then ref 2Join the EUDon't join the EU. Think the outcome of that would be hard to disagree with. Well the first trade agreement we would have to agree on would be one with the EU. Trade deals with countries 13000 miles away mean f**k all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, AUFC90 said: Aye coz England wont trade with the only nation it shares a land border with, a country that will be in the EU. You know...the same EU that England wants a trade deal with. You think the North of England is a shithole now. It will be a wasteland without cross border trade with it's nearest neighbour. Theres not using common sense then there's you. This is a point that can’t be reinforced enough. Regionalists can’t get away with claiming independence in Europe will stop us trading with the UK whilst simultaneously claiming that the UK outside Europe will continue trading wonderfully with EU nations. The Maybot has been doing this constantly! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 This is a point that can’t be reinforced enough. Regionalists can’t get away with claiming independence in Europe will stop us trading with the UK whilst simultaneously claiming that the UK outside Europe will continue trading wonderfully with EU nations. The Maybot has been doing this constantly!Yep. I think what should be even more reinforced is when English politicians mention trade between the two basically grinding to a halt someone should ask " so you're willing to throw thousands of businesses and jobs in the north england, your own constituencies, based on pettiness? ". And anyone on this site or otherwise that pedals that shit is thick as mince as far as I'm concerned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, AyrExile said: The greater risk is tumbling out of both unions. As nobody seems to keep authentic records of Scotland’s trading position then why would the Eu be willing to admit us? Because the EU is expansionist. Why would it readily accept Estonia and not Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, AyrExile said: Are there not a number of financial criteria that must be met before anyone can join? No, you must conform to the aquis. Financial criteria are required to join the Euro, not the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Having a look at Croatia's joining, I think Scotland would be in within a wink from Herr Junker, or his successor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_enlargement_of_the_European_Union 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just like if Scotland had voted yes in the 1st referendum we'd be in in no time after this one. They let eastern countries in with absolutely shite economies so they wouldnt think twice about a rich western country who has paid in for 40 years and complies with all rights and regulations. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Having a look at Croatia's joining, I think Scotland would be in within a wink from Herr Junker, or his successor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_enlargement_of_the_European_Union Also: Croatia in the EU - Still using the Kuna Montenegro not in the EU - Using the Euro without anybody's permission Currency isn't a problem and neither is membership of the EU. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Also: Croatia in the EU - Still using the Kuna Montenegro not in the EU - Using the Euro without anybody's permission Currency isn't a problem and neither is membership of the EU. Or Sweden since 1994. Meets all the criteria for adopting the Euro but one, ceding authority to the European Central Bank, which they refuse to do. Zero pressure from Brussels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 It probably is if they're talking about you...Usually I’m to loquacious as opposed to curt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 hours ago, Antlion said: Those states have to give valid reasons that the applicant country can then address. They can’t just say “we don’t like Irn Bru”. My opinion of our membership of the EU could rest on this important issue TBH. There's at least one other Dundee-supporting P&Ber who'll be keeping an eye on EU/Bru developments too, I'll wager. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 My opinion of our membership of the EU could rest on this important issue TBH. There's at least one other Dundee-supporting P&Ber who'll be keeping an eye on EU/Bru developments too, I'll wager.GMan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 The EU will allow anything as long as it suits them. Wasn’t it Bishops Briggs (RIP) that used to pretend that the EU were bound by laws rather than its own self interest? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 11 hours ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: If the question was independence from the UK but seek to join the EU and nothing else then I wouldn't likely vote for that. If the question was independence and create our own agreements with other countries on what is best for Scotland then I could go for that. What is best is obviously very subjective. It's why I'd like a few choices on any ballot or 2 referendum. Ref 1 Remain Leave If leave then ref 2 Join the EU Don't join the EU. Think the outcome of that would be hard to disagree with. I think the best you'll get is a referendum on independence, with a guarantee (that will be fulfilled) of a referendum on entry to the eu a little further on. How would you vote in that case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 11 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Usually I’m to loquacious as opposed to curt Mods, please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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