General Politics Thread

[Benjamin_Nevis]

7 hours ago, JamieThomas said:

I read they're cutting benefits to widows/widowers with kids too. In a yet more extreme version of "you lost 'x', get over it", they've decided 18 months of payment is long enough so that recipients don't dwell on things too long.

They're fucking sociopaths, man.

 

6 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Was the justification for this not "so they can adjust to single life"? I'm sure I read this. If that's the case then ffs these c***s need guillotined.

 

 

It's "Simplification of the process".

Which is a ridiculous argument, because Bereavement Benefits are the simplest possible to administer. 

 

[WaffenThinMint]

On 04/03/2017 at 19:18, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Was not a mass but an Ash Wednesday service.

When we do have a mass the Muslim kids go up and get a blessing from the priest. I think the view is that they'd rather have their kids in a Catholic school than one that was non-denominational.

The view is they'd rather have their kids in a Catholic school than one filled with Hindus or even worse, Jews.

A lot of older Muslims are so stupid, they still believe that the Catholic Mass has as part of its liturgy a call to God regarding those "perfidious Jews...remove the veil from their hearts." - up there with "fish on Friday" in the total bollocks stakes. Some of the younger aren't much better as a result, & the Ahmadiyyas called it right saying some in this country are well overdue a wee word with themselves first before pointing fingers at anyone else.

On a more cheerful note, British politics very own Gift That Keeps On Giving is at it again:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39175570

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has published his tax return as part of a call for transparency from politicians.

But the return appears to omit around £37,000 he was entitled to as leader of the opposition.

Oh Jeremy, Jeremy - you really are the best recruiting sergeant every other party has ever had!

Edited March 6, 2017 by WaffenThinMint

[Fide]

Lolz,

[JamieThomas]

Had no idea who Kevin Hague is. Looked at his Twitter. Blocked him too.

[Crùbag]

15 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said:

The view is they'd rather have their kids in a Catholic school than one filled with Hindus or even worse, Jews.

A lot of older Muslims are so stupid, they still believe that the Catholic Mass has as part of its liturgy a call to God regarding those "perfidious Jews...remove the veil from their hearts." - up there with "fish on Friday" in the total bollocks stakes. Some of the younger aren't much better as a result, & the Ahmadiyyas called it right saying some in this country are well overdue a wee word with themselves first before pointing fingers at anyone else.

On a more cheerful note, British politics very own Gift That Keeps On Giving is at it again:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39175570

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has published his tax return as part of a call for transparency from politicians.

But the return appears to omit around £37,000 he was entitled to as leader of the opposition.

Oh Jeremy, Jeremy - you really are the best recruiting sergeant every other party has ever had!

Are you obsessed about Jews? Muslims too?

Still, it's cool of you to circulate amongst those older Muslims canvassing their opinions on Jews and Catholic mass.

[vikingTON]

On 3/4/2017 at 17:48, Granny Danger said:

There should've no religion in schools.  The fact that we still have catholic schools in this country in this century is something we should be collectively ashamed of.

No, it really isn't though. Catholic schools are a normal and uncontroversial part of the education system across the Western world. Anywhere that has a substantial Catholic population, within a pluralist society in fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school#Europe

Therefore absolutely nobody should be heeding the woefully misinformed rap lectures on the topic from a pish-stained geriatric like yourself. Thanks for playing anyway. 

 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

40 minutes ago, virginton said:

No, it really isn't though. Catholic schools are a normal and uncontroversial part of the education system across the Western world. Anywhere that has a substantial Catholic population, within a pluralist society in fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school#Europe

Therefore absolutely nobody should be heeding the woefully misinformed rap lectures on the topic from a pish-stained geriatric like yourself. Thanks for playing anyway. 

 

 

Well done! You've played a blinder there*

_{* Providing nobody else has ever heard of France}  

 

[pandarilla]

No, it really isn't though. Catholic schools are a normal and uncontroversial part of the education system across the Western world. Anywhere that has a substantial Catholic population, within a pluralist society in fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school#Europe

Therefore absolutely nobody should be heeding the woefully misinformed rap lectures on the topic from a pish-stained geriatric like yourself. Thanks for playing anyway. 

 

 

 

If they were providing a genuinely positive experience (in a religious sense) for pupils I'd agree.

 

All I've found is absolute periphery in terms of anything Catholic. It's just an add on and we all pretend it's having an impact.

 

I went in open minded but there is nothing about the rc element of the school I teach in that makes me think the whole thing is worth it. A wee handful of senior pupils do all the events and for the rest it has petty much zero effect - just like a non-denominational school.

 

I'm sure it's done better elsewhere - but I can't really see how it will be all that different.

 

[Wee Willie]

On 3/4/2017 at 17:48, Granny Danger said:

There should've no religion in schools.  The fact that we still have catholic schools in this country in this century is something we should be collectively ashamed of.

 

1 hour ago, virginton said:

No, it really isn't though. Catholic schools are a normal and uncontroversial part of the education system across the Western world. Anywhere that has a substantial Catholic population, within a pluralist society in fact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school#Europe

Therefore absolutely nobody should be heeding the woefully misinformed rap lectures on the topic from a pish-stained geriatric like yourself. Thanks for playing anyway. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

If they were providing a genuinely positive experience (in a religious sense) for pupils I'd agree.

 

All I've found is absolute periphery in terms of anything Catholic. It's just an add on and we all pretend it's having an impact.

 

I went in open minded but there is nothing about the rc element of the school I teach in that makes me think the whole thing is worth it. A wee handful of senior pupils do all the events and for the rest it has petty much zero effect - just like a non-denominational school.

 

I'm sure it's done better elsewhere - but I can't really see how it will be all that different.

 

Surely religion should be taught by each faith in their own places of worship.
It's got f**k-all tae dae with education (in a wider sense).

[jmothecat]

What's the benefit of going to Catholic school? It seems completely out of date that some kids would go to this school because their parents believe in this form of the same religion, but those kids should go to that one because their parents believe in that form of the same religion.

I had a colleague talking about how ridiculous she finds Catholicism the other day, but she is a church going Christian herself. How can you slag off folk for going to mass when you yourself go to basically the same thing?

[vikingTON]

56 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Well done! You've played a blinder there*

_{* Providing nobody else has ever heard of France}  

 

Erm yes: because France's militantly secular approach to public life has done a spectacular job in integrating its multi-ethnic and multi-faith citizenry. 

Edited March 6, 2017 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I went in open minded but there is nothing about the rc element of the school I teach in that makes me think the whole thing is worth it.

Worth 'what' specifically?

The bottom line is that the parents evidently consider it valuable to sending their children to a Catholic denominational school; that right has been enshrined in law for nearly a hundred years, continues to be exercised by tens of thousands of parents every year and has been an overwhelming success for pupils and Scottish society in general.

[Cerberus]

She's made a c**t of herself, the SNP and the Scottish parliament there.

 

[Wee Willie]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

Worth 'what' specifically?

The bottom line is that the parents evidently consider it valuable to sending their children to a Catholic denominational school; that right has been enshrined in law for nearly a hundred years, continues to be exercised by tens of thousands of parents every year and has been an overwhelming success for pupils and Scottish society in general.

Balls and Bollox!

In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.
If parents want tae enforce their bairns to follow their religion then let them pay for it.
If you want your kids ta\e go tae a catholic, jewish, muslim or buddhist school then pay for it yourself.
Everyone else can send their kids tae a normal school.

 

 

[pandarilla]

Worth 'what' specifically?
The bottom line is that the parents evidently consider it valuable to sending their children to a Catholic denominational school; that right has been enshrined in law for nearly a hundred years, continues to be exercised by tens of thousands of parents every year and has been an overwhelming success for pupils and Scottish society in general.

I'm not sure of that last sentence but the rest is certainly true.

It just seems to be a 'normal' Scottish education with a forced added dimension that is ignored by the vast, vast majority of pupils.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Erm yes: because France's militantly secular approach to public life has done a spectacular job in integrating its multi-ethnic and multi-faith citizenry. 

 I'd have said good rather than spectacular

 

You're in a more bigoted part of the country so you might be easier to impress

 

[vikingTON]

25 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

Balls and Bollox!

In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.
 

Fortunately when I described Catholic schooling as an "overwhelming success", I was relying on the expert analysis of the most eminent historians of modern Scotland, rather than tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself. Emeritus Professor Sir Tom Devine's The Scottish Nation, 1700-2007 for example, argues that the rise of the historically disadvantaged Catholic minority in Scotland to social and economic parity with the rest of the population was caused by "comprehensive education from the 1960s, opportunities in the public service, a marked decline in discrimination from the 1960s and the academic success of Catholic schools". (p. 653) Professor Richard Finlay in Modern Scotland, 1914-2000 points out that the creation of Catholic schools in the interwar period allowed for the same community to develop "its own middle class" within Scottish society (p. 100); in the face of unprecedented sectarian vitriol in the establishment, Protestant Scottish culture about the "Irish Menace" (p. 94-101).

Given the nature of Scottish society today it is clear then that Catholic schools have been and continue to be an overwhelming success. That is not a point that you can credibly challenge. 

Quote

 

If parents want tae enforce their bairns to follow their religion then let them pay for it. If you want your kids ta\e go tae a catholic, jewish, muslim or buddhist school then pay for it yourself.

 

Erm, they do pay for it. The state funds denominational schooling, just as it does non-denominational schooling. The parents pay for that schooling through their taxes, just like everyone else. 

Quote

Everyone else can send their kids tae a normal school.

Given that it is quite common for "normal schools" to have visits from the local Protestant ministers, I don't think that description is accurate. 

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'

Edited March 6, 2017 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 I'd have said good rather than spectacular

 

You're in a more bigoted part of the country so you might be easier to impress

 

The level of 'bigotry', alongside far more significant indicators of a failed integration policy such as divergent social outcomes in wages, employment etc. are far, far lower in Scotland (pluralist education policy) than they are in France (secularist education policy). Which is why French Muslims live in ghettoes with scandalously high levels of unemployment and why their young adults are vulnerable to messages of Islamist hatred, whereas Catholics are a highly successful section within Scottish society. 

Thanks for playing anyway. 

[jmothecat]

Normal schools also have visits from local catholic priests as well as the local Protestant ministers. Seems to be an utterly bizarre idea to separate pupils based on what sect of a religion their parents happen to follow. Personally I would have visits from priests and ministers stopped, and religious education confined to the RE teachers who can do it properly. I feel very negatively to religion being forced down people's throats, and even more so for some pupils to be in a different school because of religion. Religion is surely something for the parents to bring their children up in, if they see fit, rather than the school.

What is the benefit to pupils to only go to a school with other people who follow your parent's religion?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The level of 'bigotry', alongside far more significant indicators of a failed integration policy such as divergent social outcomes in wages, employment etc. are far, far lower in Scotland (pluralist education policy) than they are in France (secularist education policy). Which is why French Muslims live in ghettoes with scandalously high levels of unemployment and why their young adults are vulnerable to messages of Islamist hatred, whereas Catholics are a highly successful section within Scottish society. 
Thanks for playing anyway. 

As a historian you should probably be more conscious of the difference in timescales between the two situations.

The descendants of the Victorian Irish diaspora have had several generations of a head start in catching up