General Politics Thread

[pandarilla]

You can't argue with the historic legacy but I'd argue that it's stagnated in the last 20 or so years.

The very real prejudice faced by Catholics is pretty much gone (thankfully). There's only really the Neanderthal football element left.

[Wee Willie]

48 minutes ago, virginton said:

Fortunately when I described Catholic schooling as an "overwhelming success", I was relying on the expert analysis of the most eminent historians of modern Scotland, rather than tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself. Emeritus Professor Sir Tom Devine's The Scottish Nation, 1700-2007 for example, argues that the rise of the historically disadvantaged Catholic minority in Scotland to social and economic parity with the rest of the population was caused by "comprehensive education from the 1960s, opportunities in the public service, a marked decline in discrimination from the 1960s and the academic success of Catholic schools". (p. 653) Professor Richard Finlay in Modern Scotland, 1914-2000 points out that the creation of Catholic schools in the interwar period allowed for the same community to develop "its own middle class" within Scottish society (p. 100); in the face of unprecedented sectarian vitriol in the establishment, Protestant Scottish culture about the "Irish Menace" (p. 94-101).

Given the nature of Scottish society today it is clear then that Catholic schools have been and continue to be an overwhelming success. That is not a point that you can credibly challenge. 

Erm, they do pay for it. The state funds denominational schooling, just as it does non-denominational schooling. The parents pay for that schooling through their taxes, just like everyone else. 

Given that it is quite common for "normal schools" to have visits from the local Protestant ministers, I don't think that description is accurate. 

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'

tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself
Where dae ye see water works?

I was relying on the expert analysis of the most eminent historians of modern Scotland
Whit schools did they go tae ?
And I'm no being funny.
Were they private school educated or catholic or high school etc?

I wrote
In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.
Did the professors comment on what happened with shared playgrounds etc?

What are your thoughts on the divisions that were/are caused by different religious/non-denominational schools?

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'
FFS whit school did you go tae?

[vikingTON]

49 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

As a historian you should probably be more conscious of the difference in timescales between the two situations.

The descendants of the Victorian Irish diaspora have had several generations of a head start in catching up
 

 

The descendants of the Victorian Irish weren't catching up until the Catholic denominational education helped them to do so. That is the historical consensus. Good luck with your pipe dream that secular schools will acheive any similar effect for French Muslims. 

The comparison demonstrates clearly that for the wind and pish about why schools should be secular in theory, in practice a pluralist approach works out best for everyone involved. 

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself
Where dae ye see water works?

I was relying on the expert analysis of the most eminent historians of modern Scotland
Whit schools did they go tae ?
And I'm no being funny.
Were they private school educated or catholic or high school etc?

I wrote
In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.
Did the professors comment on what happened with shared playgrounds etc?

What are your thoughts on the divisions that were/are caused by different religious/non-denominational schools?

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'
FFS whit school did you go tae?

Evidently a better one than you did based on that drivel; perhaps your parents should have taken advantage of the choice that Scotland's pluralist education system provides. 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The descendants of the Victorian Irish weren't catching up until the Catholic denominational education helped them to do so. That is the historical consensus. Good luck with your pipe dream that secular schools will acheive any similar effect for French Muslims. 

 

Catholic denominational education had been failing them for generations before the state intervened.

 

It's the state funding as opposed to the denomination that changed things.

 

If there were millions of French Muslims being pressured by their Imans into sending their children to shit Muslim schools to keep them free from heathen influence then we might have a parallel here.

 

 

[WaffenThinMint]

5 hours ago, Crùbag said:

Are you obsessed about Jews? Muslims too?

Still, it's cool of you to circulate amongst those older Muslims canvassing their opinions on Jews and Catholic mass.

I'm amused by your worry about me "obsessing" about Jews & Muslims. Why shouldn't I take an interest in those who are my neighbours, work colleagues, family members, etc? If anyone talking about them makes you uncomfortable (as it clearly does), you need to have a wee word with yourself.

Perhaps if you tried talking with some Muslims - let alone older - you might know more about them. Guess what, they don't bite, but they've as many pet prejudices as big bad Whitey. Learning to accept them as they are rather than some buckled leftie trope where they're all Guardianista approved plaster saints (which is equally as offensive as the demonisation by the knuckle trailing right) is all part of the process of growing up. Try it.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I'm amused by your worry about me "obsessing" about Jews & Muslims. Why shouldn't I take an interest in those who are my neighbours, work colleagues, family members, etc? If anyone talking about them makes you uncomfortable (as it clearly does), you need to have a wee word with yourself.
Perhaps if you tried talking with some Muslims - let alone older - you might know more about them. Guess what, they don't bite, but they've as many pet prejudices as big bad Whitey. Learning to accept them as they are rather than some buckled leftie trope where they're all Guardianista approved plaster saints (which is equally as offensive as the demonisation by the knuckle trailing right) is all part of the process of growing up. Try it.

Any follow up on your exclusive exposé of Jeremy's tax fiddling yet?

[Crùbag]

4 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said:

I'm amused by your worry about me "obsessing" about Jews & Muslims. Why shouldn't I take an interest in those who are my neighbours, work colleagues, family members, etc? If anyone talking about them makes you uncomfortable (as it clearly does), you need to have a wee word with yourself.

Perhaps if you tried talking with some Muslims - let alone older - you might know more about them. Guess what, they don't bite, but they've as many pet prejudices as big bad Whitey. Learning to accept them as they are rather than some buckled leftie trope where they're all Guardianista approved plaster saints (which is equally as offensive as the demonisation by the knuckle trailing right) is all part of the process of growing up. Try it.

You make a lot of assumptions there boyo.

Look forward to you namedropping your Buddhist, Atheist, Sikh, German, US, African etc neighbours, colleagues too.

[WaffenThinMint]

Just now, Crùbag said:

You make a lot of assumptions there boyo.

As did you.

Feeling stupid yet?

[Ira Gaines]

No matter how stupid anyone is here, they still wouldn't have typed out a multi-paragraph essay on the life of another poster detailing how they think it is and just generally be a creepy c**t.

[pandarilla]

Lord 'wee jack' McConnell on the 'Meet the lords' programme on BBC2. Looking suave and cool - just chillin' in the old houses of parliament.

c**t.

[parsforlife]

 
Imagine not being embarrassed about being a Catholic.

Ooft, state of that.

Looks like a badly done prison tattoo, bet it goes well with her love and hate efforts on her knuckles

[Cerberus]

It reminds me of the bit in IT Crowd where Roy gets chocolate on his head and people think it's shit.

[Crùbag]

12 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said:

As did you.

Feeling stupid yet?

No, just observed your usage of the terms 'Jews' and 'Muslims' in some of your quotes. Can't recall seeing that in anyone elses.

Feel free to address the actual points though.

[Wee Willie]

11 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Lord 'wee jack' McConnell on the 'Meet the lords' programme on BBC2. Looking suave and cool - just chillin' in the old houses of parliament.

c**t.

double c**t - dinnae forget his mate the ex-speaker.

[Wee Willie]

15 hours ago, Wee Willie said:

tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself
Where dae ye see water works?

I was relying on the expert analysis of the most eminent historians of modern Scotland
Whit schools did they go tae ?
And I'm no being funny.
Were they private school educated or catholic or high school etc?

I wrote
In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.
Did the professors comment on what happened with shared playgrounds etc?

What are your thoughts on the divisions that were/are caused by different religious/non-denominational schools?

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'
FFS whit school did you go tae?

 

14 hours ago, virginton said:

Evidently a better one than you did based on that drivel; perhaps your parents should have taken advantage of the choice that Scotland's pluralist education system provides. 

 

So that’s how ye win an argument, attack the poster and no whit he wrote.
Incidently I was at school 1948-58 and we had a very limited choice of what school tae go tae.

I’ll ask again
tear-drenched anecdotes from yourself
Where dae ye see water works?

I wrote
In the 60's Perth council built two primary schools next door tae each other.
One was non-denominational and the other was catholic.
They shared the same big playground except there was a council built wire mesh fence straight doon the middle
And that was an overwhelming success in the name of tolerance and understanding.

I saw these schools being built and the iron curtain being placed in the centre of the playground.
I accept that it was 50+ years ago but it did happen.
If they built the same two schools next door to each other nowadays would they still place a fence in the playground? 

Still - by providing the 'sectariun divishuns', 'pay for it thumselves' and 'non-denominational = "normal school"' canards, you've given me a full house on 'Scottish 'secular schools' bullshit bingo'
It was you who wrote that and you’re right, it is drivel. 

Try and answer the questions and no be so abusive.
Also a couple of posters have asked

Why segregate schools on the basis of religion?
Could you possibly answer that.

[NotThePars]

He has answered that lol.

[Ira Gaines]

I bet he's got a wee willie.

Sorry.

[Mark Connolly]

14 hours ago, Randy Giles said:

No matter how stupid anyone is here, they still wouldn't have typed out a multi-paragraph essay on the life of another poster detailing how they think it is and just generally be a creepy c**t.

Why shouldn't he take an interest in those who are his neighbours, work colleagues, family members, etc?

 

 

[Jambomo]

Reading that the House of lords is currently debating the proposition of having a second referendum. Its strange to think that our undemocratic, unelected chamber of peers seem to actually be more in favour of doing what is morally right than our government are. I am actually quite glad we have them.