Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[RandomGuy.]

33 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Kind of related to the KVV fee chat but also a nod to the semi-regular "Steelmen Online...what are they like, eh?" narrative having just read that apparently "with a couple of exceptions we have been brutal over the years at getting the best value for any players we have developed and / or brought in and moved on for a profit" 

I'd say that we've generally done alright recently in terms of getting relative value...like, by my count going back to Erwin we've brought in a reported £9m+ in transfer fees, sell-ons or development fees and that's before you factor in the clutch of recent "undisclosed" fees.

Like, last set of accounts showed we brought in around £1m in a season where we barely sold anyone of note outside of Tony Watt and Allan Campbell left for Luton.

The idea that we've been "brutal" on that front is something of a myth now that's been perpetuated from the days where we were pretty much giving the likes of Murphy and Reynolds away.

Anyway here the rough list:

You got as much for Jake Hastie and James Scott combined as we got for Jason Kerr and Ali McCann combined. 

[Swello]

32 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Kind of related to the KVV fee chat but also a nod to the semi-regular "Steelmen Online...what are they like, eh?" narrative having just read that apparently we've been "brutal" over the years at getting the best value for any players.

I'd say that we've generally done alright recently in terms of getting relative value...by my count going back to Erwin we've brought in a reported £9m+ in transfer fees, sell-ons or development fees and that's before you factor in the clutch of recent "undisclosed" fees.

Like, last set of accounts showed we brought in around £1m in a season where we barely sold anyone of note outside of Tony Watt and Allan Campbell left for Luton.

The idea that we've been "brutal" on that front is something of a myth now that's been perpetuated from the days where we were pretty much giving the likes of Murphy and Reynolds away.

Anyway here the rough list:

I guess in 'Flow's legacy "positive" column would definitely be actually making money from players after Dempster's years, where brutal would have been a kind description. Without the money we've pulled in - we would be in a far worse position.

[dezz]

Can't profess to keep track of all the in's and out's at other Premiership clubs, particularly if it's youth players being snapped up for development compensation before anyone has even heard of them, but I'd be surprised if any of our direct competitors (St Johnstone, Killie, Livi, St Mirren etc) have been as successful at 'player trading' as we've been over the last 7-8 years. 

To be fair though, St Mirren look like they have a few this season, like Baccus and Strain that they'll make a decent wedge on. 

[thisGRAEME]

33 minutes ago, dezz said:

Can't profess to keep track of all the in's and out's at other Premiership clubs, particularly if it's youth players being snapped up for development compensation before anyone has even heard of them, but I'd be surprised if any of our direct competitors (St Johnstone, Killie, Livi, St Mirren etc) have been as successful at 'player trading' as we've been over the last 7-8 years. 

To be fair though, St Mirren look like they have a few this season, like Baccus and Strain that they'll make a decent wedge on. 

That we got the best part of half a million pounds for Stephen Pearson and Ben Heneghen remains incredible.

[dezz]

3 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

That we got the best part of half a million pounds for Stephen Pearson and Ben Heneghen remains incredible.

Studies should be commissioned to find out how we got money for Ben Heneghen.

Warren Buffet could learn a thing or two from 'Flow.

[Swello]

Balanced out by ZERO SELL-ON for Dom Thomas.

[rowsdower]

11 minutes ago, Swello said:

Balanced out by ZERO SELL-ON for Dom Thomas.

We should have at least negotiated the rights to a percentage of profits from his silky skills training school.

[thisGRAEME]

17 minutes ago, Swello said:

Balanced out by ZERO SELL-ON for Dom Thomas.

That queen's park currently look like a Sunday league team that have realised they'll have to do stuff like "train" and "graft" if they get promoted definitely tracks.

[well fan for life]

2 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

That queen's park currently look like a Sunday league team that have realised they'll have to do stuff like "train" and "graft" if they get promoted definitely tracks.

Or have this mental thing called a stadium.

[welldaft]

On 25/04/2023 at 16:00, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm still not convinced we'll get that many offers for him tbh. If he was out of contract he'd probably have his pick of English League 1 and lower Championship clubs, or those at a decent level in Europe- if Higdon got a midtable Eredivisie team then surely Kev could. As it is though, I'm not really sure how many of those sorts of sides have high six-figures lying around to be chucking at a 31 year old going through a mental purple patch.

If we do get offers I reckon they'll be China, Saudi Arabia maybe Turkey or America etc. Which again, absolutely fair fucks to him if he does get that sort of move.

You are probably right. But the guy has undoubted talent and anyone who scores 20+ goals for Motherwell is a season long struggle should attract quite a few suitors. The goals he scored are of a very high standard. The last one against Celtic was sublime and he nearly scored another even better one after skinning 3 or 4 Celtic defenders. If he can score a few more post split then hopefully we get a decent offer.

I guess the Q is how would Van Veen react if we knock back some offers this summer on the basis they don’t meet our valuation. A strong argument to be made that 20+ goals a season is worth £500k-£1m+ if it gets us top 6 / Europe or even more if it helps us avoid relegation. 

Time will tell but anything less than £750k may not be worth it…..

Edited April 26, 2023 by welldaft

[capt_oats]

Ketts talking about his first 9 games...

[rowsdower]

We're absolutely selling KVV. There's no guarantee he can continue this form (I'd keep him based on early season form as well to be fair) or stay fit, so from both sides perspective this is the time to cash in. He has a chance of multiplying his wages and we have the chance to cover next seasons budget shortfall and have money left to sack the manager at some point. 

For him, waiting until the end of next season to walk for nothing might be a big risk with him turning 33 at that point. So if we don't sell him in the summer he should just re-sign with us forever.

[Mark Connolly]

22 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Ketts talking about his first 9 games...

Were you everybody's favourites to go down when he was appointed?

[ropy]

3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

Were you everybody's favourites to go down when he was appointed?

The shout was that we would never win another game again.

Edited April 26, 2023 by ropy

[Swello]

1 minute ago, Mark Connolly said:

Were you everybody's favourites to go down when he was appointed?

We were certainly favourites to go down on this thread.

[Mark Connolly]

2 minutes ago, ropy said:

The shout was that we would never win another game again.

We've been hearing that since August...

[capt_oats]

On the KVV valuation and whether he'll have clubs interested kind of brings me to the fact that one of the things we seems to have been quite good at is working with a player in actively securing a move.

You look at Andy Rose getting his move to Vancouver, Moult to Preston, Kipré to Wigan, Beneghan to Sheffield Utd, Scott to Hull...we've generally been true to our word in players progressing their career while under contract.

@Casagolda linked to an interview with Daws ages ago on the TransferRoom platform and the seminar seems to be a fixture in our recruitment schedule (2021, 2022). A lot of the stuff in those links read like #ad content there was a piece on The Athletic that probably hints at the fact that given the format there's a decent chance we'll know exactly how much interest there would be in an asset like KVV at the price point we're looking at.

Presumably it's also an indicator as to how random Chinese clubs end up trying to take punts on Motherwell players.

['WellDel]

No idea what the Chinese mob offered, but for a striker at his age, on current form and with a year left on his contract and considering we picked him up for hee haw, I think our valuation could be anywhere between £350k- 750k. 

The lower number would barely register as a punt to any mid-range side either down south or in Asia, and the higher figure would be fucking tremendous business for us, all things considered.

Let's face it, either way he's not here next season, and the big handsome, weird, huffy Dutch b*****d deserves one last go at making some serious coin. If we can ride on his coat tails and reign in a few quid as well, then everyone's a winner and I'm cool with that.

[ropy]

Give him a five year contract and get him to open an ISA.  He will make his money.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, 'WellDel said:

No idea what the Chinese mob offered, but for a striker at his age, on current form and with a year left on his contract and considering we picked him up for hee haw, I think our valuation could be anywhere between £350k- 750k. 

The lower number would barely register as a punt to any mid-range side either down south or in Asia, and the higher figure would be fucking tremendous business for us, all things considered.

Let's face it, either way he's not here next season, and the big handsome, weird, huffy Dutch b*****d deserves one last go at making some serious coin. If we can ride on his coat tails and reign in a few quid as well, then everyone's a winner and I'm cool with that.

The thing that we never take into account is the the thing that practically limits the transfer fee - the fact that if we blocked a guy that's done *really* well getting a good end of career move for the the sake or 2 or 3 hundred grand (or a "hypothetical league position is worth x" argument), we'd be an even less appealing move for players that could be making more playing for a League 2 non-entity down south. 

In short, our "shop window" thing is our only real selling point and our (really good) track record there is worth more to us than hanging onto any particular player at the end of the season will ever be. If someone offers a few hundred grand for KVV in the summer, there is no way we're rejecting it.