Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[PSJ.84]

1 hour ago, Dooj said:

Personally, I would be very glad if CD never listened to fans' opinions on what system he should play - he has to have faith in his own abilities as a manager and to stick to his principles through the ups and downs. 

Whilst that’s a fair point, there has to be a degree of flexibility and acceptance that the system, which he doesn’t prefer, won’t always work. The squad he’s ‘built’ doesn’t allow for that, which is incredibly short-sighted management. 

[Theyellowbox]

As much as I think he won't change, IF we stay up, the club WILL give him the opportunity to go again next season.

I'd imagine Brown will be of the opinion (or will have been told by Davidson) that the dross on show at the moment is a necessity in order to ensure we stay up and that next season a more expansive type of football will come al la Tommy in his final 2 years. I don't believe that myself, but I could see that conversation happening. Equally, with a better mindset and coaching, he does have some players who given the freedom can be creative, Spoony, Crawford, McPherson and possibly Hallberg.

As I say, I doubt Davidson will change style regardless. Yes, it is all about survival and the post Jan run has been acceptable to an extent, but he needs to acknowledge publicly that murderball is a means to an end at the moment and will not be his approach for evermore.

Big shades of post Sturrock for me at the moment, which is a worry. 

[mizfit]

McPherson, Creative?

[Broughty]

I accept everything about the terrible boring matches this season and the tactics etc. If we had signed a successful striker before the start of the season and he had scored say another six goals on top of what we have then that would have probably given us a few more points and we would have made top six.

Tommy didn't really help when he re-signed Stevie May as that in my opinion has not been a success.

[The Saintee]

4 minutes ago, Broughty said:

I accept everything about the terrible boring matches this season and the tactics etc. If we had signed a successful striker before the start of the season and he had scored say another six goals on top of what we have then that would have probably given us a few more points and we would have made top six.

Tommy didn't really help when he re-signed Stevie May as that in my opinion has not been a success.

By no means do I want to white knight Tommy cause he's probably/definitely a sectarian twat but his signing of May made a bit of sense to me. 

He was a proven striker that had done well for him previously and he probably felt that making him a focal point of the attack would work again. 

Should've listened to Tam though.

[Kyle]

17 minutes ago, Broughty said:

I accept everything about the terrible boring matches this season and the tactics etc. If we had signed a successful striker before the start of the season and he had scored say another six goals on top of what we have then that would have probably given us a few more points and we would have made top six.

Tommy didn't really help when he re-signed Stevie May as that in my opinion has not been a success.

Davidson signed May on a new 2 year contract just last summer. Probably was a mistake in hindsight to bringing him back, but giving him (and O’Halloran) such long contracts is endemic of the kind of decision that has seen us fail so spectacularly this season. 

[Theyellowbox]

46 minutes ago, mizfit said:

McPherson, Creative?

I think there is a creative player in there somewhere. McPherson is an enigma. If he can sort himself out injury wise and crack on, he's got something to give. 

[tree house tam]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Davidson signed May on a new 2 year contract just last summer. Probably was a mistake in hindsight to bringing him back, but giving him (and O’Halloran) such long contracts is endemic of the kind of decision that has seen us fail so spectacularly this season. 

This is the most galling part, throw in McPherson and Crawford on.long deals and it just makes him look clueless.

[Mr Heliums]

2 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

As much as I think he won't change, IF we stay up, the club WILL give him the opportunity to go again next season.

I'd imagine Brown will be of the opinion (or will have been told by Davidson) that the dross on show at the moment is a necessity in order to ensure we stay up and that next season a more expansive type of football will come al la Tommy in his final 2 years.

Of course he'll stay;worse than that, the media will even use him as a poster boy for the benefits of sticking with managers. Look at Dundee and Hibs and Aberdeen, they'll say. 

The only way Davidson goes is if we go down.

[Jamie_B]

2 hours ago, The Saintee said:

By no means do I want to white knight Tommy cause he's probably/definitely a sectarian twat but his signing of May made a bit of sense to me. 

He was a proven striker that had done well for him previously and he probably felt that making him a focal point of the attack would work again. 

Should've listened to Tam though.

At the point Wright left - ie at the point the league shut down in March 2020 - May and Hendry had just struck up a very productive partnership with both scoring and looking all round very effective.

[RandomGuy.]

20 minutes ago, Jamie_Beatson said:

At the point Wright left - ie at the point the league shut down in March 2020 - May and Hendry had just struck up a very productive partnership with both scoring and looking all round very effective.

This for me. He wasn't what he was, but he'd become someone who could contribute goals himself and set them up for others. His, rumoured, wages meant he probably failed to justify the signing but he was useful under TW.

To me, under Davidson, he's regressed to the version Aberdeen had, where he hides behind his off the ball work rate because he knows he can get easy praise from his manager for that, instead of taking risks and getting criticised for it/ostracised for it (Vertainen/Hendry, as examples).

A wasted end to a career which had started to show some shoots of recovery.

[PSJ.84]

Really showed…

[The Saintee]

I do broadly agree with the points made by @RandomGuy. and @Jamie_Beatson . He's not justified the money though and it's telling that Davidson has tried to punt the goalscorer but kept the worker.

[mizfit]

Really showed…

He looked massively off the pace I felt at the time, explains a lot about his performance.

[Kyle]

Not to be mean spirited, but I don’t think Booth was much worse than he’s been in a lot of games this season. He misses the presence of Wotherspoon individually as the team misses him generally IMO. 

[mizfit]

Not to be mean spirited, but I don’t think Booth was much worse than he’s been in a lot of games this season. He misses the presence of Wotherspoon individually as the team misses him generally IMO. 

Oh agreed, without Wotherspoon to link in with he has seemed a bit lost on that wing. But Saturday he looked worse than usual.

Something that desperately needs addressed.

[Widge]

Yeah we’d looked a lot more effective down that side with Gallacher playing to be honest, he was starting to find his feet I think. Defensively still naive, but more direct and willing to run at players. 

[Dooj]

21 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

He did change it, though. Wotherspoons role changed into a more central midfield one, and we also changed to get Melamed, then Middleton, in the side, from his original plan. Liam Craig came in to plug central holes his initial tactic threw up as another example. Then things changed again when we lost McNamara. 

The fact he could change last season but is stubbornly sticking by it this season is the thing I don't understand about what's happened this year.

Well I guess there is always an argument of when does a tweak become a change, and vice versa. I was more referring to the set-up with wing-backs, Kane up front and the punt it up the park tactic so Kane could win a free-kick. Personnel may have changed but fundamentally CD kept the same set up when plenty were calling for 4-4-2 or something else.

[Dooj]

21 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

Whilst that’s a fair point, there has to be a degree of flexibility and acceptance that the system, which he doesn’t prefer, won’t always work. The squad he’s ‘built’ doesn’t allow for that, which is incredibly short-sighted management. 

Yes, there's nothing about sticking to your principles that precludes learning and adapting.

[RandomGuy.]

On 27/04/2022 at 13:51, Dooj said:

Personnel may have changed but fundamentally CD kept the same set up when plenty were calling for 4-4-2 or something else.

Yeah he never moved from the back 3/5, but the midfield changed to plug gaps and give us more control, and the attack changed to give more support to the striker and increase our threat. He would switch between this set up and the OG one dependent on opponent/situation too.

This season he's not changed anything apart from personnel. We have troubles in the build up, sometimes we resolve that in game, but then by the next week he's back to the original plan and we have the same issues. Up front we have no link up between the strikers, we just get a tombola trying to find a partnership to resolve that. We have no build up on the left since Wotherspoon got injured, all that's been done to change that is change the wing back without adding more support.

I just can't understand why he was able to identify these issues last season, and resolve them, and during games this season, but we never try anything different in games now apart from different players. It's like he's seen success last season with a set up and convinced himself it'll work again eventually if he just keeps at it, when footballs just not like that, you have to constantly evolve as your squad/opponents tactics evolve.

He'll see the fact we've avoided 12th using his tactics as justification, and expect us to be much better once he's signed players he wants in the Summer, and that terrifies me as I think he won't bother thinking of anything new for next season regardless of what division we're in.