Old Firm Colts in L2

[haufdaft]

Just using this as an example of the trend of views here. It seems a wee bit like:-
"Let's go out for a curry"

"No thanks, I don't want a curry"

"Have you ever tried one?"

"No, I just know I wouldn't like it"

I see it more as -

"Let's go out for a meal of dog shite"

"No thanks, I don't want to eat dog shite"

"Have you ever tried it?"

"No, I just know I wouldn't like it"

"It's not just eating it though, you're going to have to pay for it too"

"Why would I want to pay to eat dog shite?"

"It will be to the benefit of others. Not you but others. Just pay the dosh and get eating. Your opinion as a paying customer is irrelevant"

[Clyde01]

It's still football; different recipe, but the ingredients for a competitive football match with commensurate skill levels to what we see now. And will develop young players.

Maybe you could elaborate on how this will develop young players?

Are you suggesting our next generation of top players would be better served playing in a youth team against teams of seasoned pros at the arse end of the league pyramid rather than being loaned out and training with / playing alongside experienced guys at championship / premier league level?

[Clyde01]

In reality this will make no difference to player development, destroy the lower leagues and allow that twat Doncaster to tick a box on how he is taking the game forward and think he is doing a great job.

[Bazil85]

*Posted on other thread*

I messaged SMISA last night who are the supporters club behind our fan buyout. They said they would canvas fan opinion if the club asked them to do but ultimately right now it would be a board decision. I think any fan owned club or club moving towards fan ownership would be playing a very dangerous game if they were to make a decision on this without consulting fans. Especially if they were in favor of it when fan opinion seems overwhelmingly negative. 

Edit*

I would encourage all fans feeling strongly about this to contact their clubs, especially lowland, highland, league 1 and league 2 fans where it'll impact massively. 

[Blootoon87]

Not one word on the impact on league one and two teams or their fans.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-celtic-colt-teams-free-10598516

Anyone see the poll results on there? 79% in favour of colts in the league. f**k sake.

[GordonD]

2 hours ago, A Believer said:

Just using this as an example of the trend of views here. It seems a wee bit like:-
"Let's go out for a curry"

"No thanks, I don't want a curry"

"Have you ever tried one?"

"No, I just know I wouldn't like it"

It's still football; different recipe, but the ingredients for a competitive football match with commensurate skill levels to what we see now. And will develop young players; liking the earlier post re reasonable constraints

Of course the other trend is that this all about a Rangers and Celtic conspiracy curry. Fitba's not all about them; and the likelihood of any other 'elite' league accepting them is nil. Just not a factor in this debate.

No, it's more like you go for the curry and find that it's been cooked by the chef's ten-year-old son "because it's the best way to train him".

[BB_Bino]

1 hour ago, Bazil85 said:

*Posted on other thread*

I messaged SMISA last night who are the supporters club behind our fan buyout. They said they would canvas fan opinion if the club asked them to do but ultimately right now it would be a board decision. I think any fan owned club or club moving towards fan ownership would be playing a very dangerous game if they were to make a decision on this without consulting fans. Especially if they were in favor of it when fan opinion seems overwhelmingly negative. 

Edit*

I would encourage all fans feeling strongly about this to contact their clubs, especially lowland, highland, league 1 and league 2 fans where it'll impact massively. 

You know what does my head in more than anything about all this? We're got all these Trusts and Supporters Groups all across Scotland and not one of them are doing anything publically about it. None of them are organising protests or coming to the press to defend lower league fans. Where's our voice in all of this??

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, Blootoon87 said:

Anyone see the poll results on there? 79% in favour of colts in the league. f**k sake.

Will be because of the number of bigot brothers fans that read that particular paper. 

[Bazil85]

3 hours ago, A Believer said:

Just using this as an example of the trend of views here. It seems a wee bit like:-
"Let's go out for a curry"

"No thanks, I don't want a curry"

"Have you ever tried one?"

"No, I just know I wouldn't like it"

It's still football; different recipe, but the ingredients for a competitive football match with commensurate skill levels to what we see now. And will develop young players; liking the earlier post re reasonable constraints

Of course the other trend is that this all about a Rangers and Celtic conspiracy curry. Fitba's not all about them; and the likelihood of any other 'elite' league accepting them is nil. Just not a factor in this debate.

I don't see what part of it is a conspiracy theory? Colt teams will benefit The OF more than anyone else because they're likely the only ones that can afford it. If they get it right could see them up at the top of league 1 in a few years meaning teams in that league will have nothing to play for except to help train OF youth players. 

[Booker-T]

On 6/12/2017 at 13:09, BB_Bino said:

Once we are outside of the EU, there is no reason why this rule couldn't be re-introduced. I'm not sure I would want to see it as low as 3 again, however I do think we need a cap. Something like a maximum of 6 foreign players in the match day 18 would be fair enough.

xenophobic c**t rule 

[Bazil85]

3 minutes ago, Booker-T said:

xenophobic c**t rule 

There is nothing wrong with this rule it can be implemented at anytime. The rule did not and would not ban  a club signing foreign players, they can sign as many as they want, the rule would only apply to having a certain number of players play that were eligible to play for the Scottish National team. It's no more Xenophobic than the national teams themselves not being allowed to play foreign players. 

I think it would be a great thing to happen. Celtic and Rangers are so far off competing in Europe, they may as well be forced to develop young Scottish players to benefit the national team. Win win as well because if they do develop them they can sell them for millions. 

[Booker-T]

25 minutes ago, Bazil85 said:

There is nothing wrong with this rule it can be implemented at anytime. The rule did not and would not ban  a club signing foreign players, they can sign as many as they want, the rule would only apply to having a certain number of players play that were eligible to play for the Scottish National team. It's no more Xenophobic than the national teams themselves not being allowed to play foreign players. 

I think it would be a great thing to happen. Celtic and Rangers are so far off competing in Europe, they may as well be forced to develop young Scottish players to benefit the national team. Win win as well because if they do develop them they can sell them for millions. 

making it difficult for guys to play football, despite them contributing to the local economy, on the basis of where they were born is xenophobic.

Do something similar to the UEFA homegrown rule, that could be decent.  

[A Believer]

Maybe you could elaborate on how this will develop young players?

Are you suggesting our next generation of top players would be better served playing in a youth team against teams of seasoned pros at the arse end of the league pyramid rather than being loaned out and training with / playing alongside experienced guys at championship / premier league level?

It's well documented that the transition rate of under 20's into first teams is lamentably low. That step from peer group competition to mixing with seasoned pro's may be too wide. We're struggling to produce Scottish talent. If u-20's play and develop in a more stretching and 'real' environment, might that help?

If it's just the old firm; then no. If it's a sensible group of clubs that are doing it for the right reason (to help players develop) then why not?

[RiG]

How will playing a bunch of U20s against part time plumbers and decorators improve them any more than playing in a dedicated development league?

[NewBlue]

Just now, A Believer said:

It's well documented that the transition rate of under 20's into first teams is lamentably low. That step from peer group competition to mixing with seasoned pro's may be too wide. We're struggling to produce Scottish talent. If u-20's play and develop in a more stretching and 'real' environment, might that help?

If it's just the old firm; then no. If it's a sensible group of clubs that are doing it for the right reason (to help players develop) then why not?

 

Because this is only about the OF. If more than those two done it we could end up with the whole of L1 or L2 filled with reserve teams and then we might as well just have a reserve league which would defeat the whole purpose.

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, Booker-T said:

making it difficult for guys to play football, despite them contributing to the local economy, on the basis of where they were born is xenophobic.

Do something similar to the UEFA homegrown rule, that could be decent.  

Youth players only need to be here in our education system for five years to be eligible to play for the national team, it's a perfectly reasonable rule to have in place 'trained/ developed by a Scottish team for five seasons during school age. So it's not xenophobic in the slightest, your argument suggests it's xenophobic that a French player can't fly over to Scotland on the Friday and play for the national team on Saturday. . 

[Jaggy Snake]

The point is not whether this would actually improve young players, or which teams are willing and able to enter colt sides into the league.

The point is that lower league clubs currently compete against other senior clubs of a similar standing, with similar goals, ambitions and resources. Making them compete with colt teams, from clubs with vastly different resources, and the main objective of developing young players with only a second thought to winning games/league titles would make a mockery of the league set up. Whether they entered a new League Three or the East of Scotland league is immaterial.

I don’t care if this set up is run in other countries who deem it acceptable, fans of the clubs the colt teams wish to play against have no appetite for it. And for all those who hold up Spain and the like as examples, England have just won the Under 20’s World Cup with a team full of players who have played most of their football on loan from top clubs to teams further down the leagues.

[Only one David Marsh]

Realistically only the bigots could do this as the colt teams would need to be run as a football club and achieve the licence criteria for clubs and grounds. I just don't see motherwell, St Johnstone etc willing to absorb the expense plus the clubs are rebellious towards project failure. If we want to improve the youngsters bring back the reserve league and look at loaning them out to get game time. 

[GordonD]

1 hour ago, RiG said:

How will playing a bunch of U20s against part time plumbers and decorators improve them any more than playing in a dedicated development league?

To be fair Celtic’s first game last season was against a team of part-time taxi-drivers.  They lost,  but they did improve as the season went on.

[LongTimeLurker]

42 minutes ago, Only one David Marsh said:

Realistically only the bigots could do this as the colt teams would need to be run as a football club and achieve the licence criteria for clubs and grounds. I just don't see motherwell, St Johnstone etc willing to absorb the expense plus the clubs are rebellious towards project failure. If we want to improve the youngsters bring back the reserve league and look at loaning them out to get game time. 

If you are already running your first team as a football club, have a plastic pitch and already have a development team under contract where are the huge extra expenses? Think the only significant stumbling block is when renting another club's ground is involved over concerns about wear and tear to the pitch, but for the likes of Kilmarnock, Hamilton Accies, Falkirk and Dunfermline that's not likely to be a problem.