Catalonia

[sparky88]

I'd expect the police of any democratic nation to act in the same way.  We kid ourselves on that democratic countries are inherently liberal but they can be just as paranoid as dictatorships. 

[John Lambies Doos]

A good Vow would have sorted this out.

[Dindeleux]

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

[Jmothecat2]

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

Heavy handed approach and targeting voters rather than those who are organising it.

[Shades75]

2 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

Telling them not to do it "or else" was the start of what they're doing wrong.

[Zetterlund]

6 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

 Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

Telling them not to do it "or else" in itself is the first thing they did wrong.  Telling them it would be illegal, letting them get on with it, then ignoring it would have been far more sensible.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Zetterlund

[Big Fifer]

Thing is, if Catalonia requires the Spanish Governments permission to hold a referendum, and they know that there's a highly likely chance it'll be a Yes for independence, then the Spanish will never allow it to happen "legally". So what do the people that are backing "the law" suggest Catalonia does?

[doulikefish]

12 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

"Dont do it or we will beat up the grannies "

[invergowrie arab]

13 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

Go and be boring somewhere else.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

10 minutes ago, Dindeleux said:

Don’t really see what the Spanish have done wrong here? They told them not to do it “or else” and they went ahead and did it anyway.

If they were willing to get authoritarian, they should have just declared the referendum illegal, asked their side to boycott, and then sent in the police only if the local government tried to declare independence based on a boycotted vote. Optics are way better. Maybe in the aftermath you could level economic consequences on the individuals responsible for organizing the vote to give future people pause. Not knowing much about Spanish politics, I can only assume they are worried that letting votes on this issue happen unchallenged is a Pandora's Box they don't want to open and a precedent they don't want to set.

 

 

[NotThePars]

The early omens aren't particularly great for the Catalonians if the EU don't condemn the Spanish. That British govt. statement was pure shitebaggery that lets the Spanish state completely off the hook. Thankfully our putrid island's influence is rapidly shrinking by the hour.

[Shades75]

9 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The early omens aren't particularly great for the Catalonians if the EU don't condemn the Spanish. That British govt. statement was pure shitebaggery that lets the Spanish state completely off the hook. Thankfully our putrid island's influence is rapidly shrinking by the hour.

Merkel wants answers from Spain as to why there was a heightened intervention from the police, which is a start.

I was thinking of a way to put the UK's statement on the matter.   I think "Putrid" puts it very well.  The politics and outlook of the UK over the last few years makes me want to scream.

[Dunning1874]

43 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

So what do the people that are backing "the law" suggest Catalonia does?

Shut up and eat their cereal.

[Zetterlund]

Rajoy is saying no referendum took place today, and that the authorities responded with "firmness & calm". Injury count at 761.

 

[Crossbill]

50 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

Thing is, if Catalonia requires the Spanish Governments permission to hold a referendum, and they know that there's a highly likely chance it'll be a Yes for independence, then the Spanish will never allow it to happen "legally". So what do the people that are backing "the law" suggest Catalonia does?

Really important question, and one that I'm afraid Scotland may run up against in the not to distant future.  The only reason we got the Edinburgh agreement was because Westminster was so cocksure about winning.

[doulikefish]

5 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

Rajoy is saying no referendum took place today, and that the authorities responded with "firmness & calm". Injury count at 761.

 

[welshbairn]

59 minutes ago, Jmothecat2 said:

 

Heavy handed approach and targeting voters rather than those who are organising it.

 

They arrested a fair few of them before today. If they hadn't sent in the troops nobody would have taken it seriously.

[Alan Stubbs]

2 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The UK government finally gets round to commentating on the situation....

Tragic stuff if that quote is accurate. The UK is quite fond of talking up referendums and self determination when it comes to planting folk on bits of rock that they want. Not such a big issue for them here for some reason.

[Crossbill]

doulikefish, that is apparently an old picture from 2011 - not from today.  There has been a number of old pictures and videos posted.  Not really sure why, but if I was guessing I would say to try discredit the actual violence taking  place.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

1 hour ago, Big Fifer said:

Thing is, if Catalonia requires the Spanish Governments permission to hold a referendum, and they know that there's a highly likely chance it'll be a Yes for independence, then the Spanish will never allow it to happen "legally". So what do the people that are backing "the law" suggest Catalonia does?

I'm shooting from the hip here, but Catalonia going down the route of exhausting all other peaceful options (potentially before taking the nuclear option of a unilateral declaration of independence) should only make Catalan independence more likely than not; the reaction to this referendum should really show the people of Catalonia exactly what the Spanish state stands for, what with their heavy-handed and rather ham-fisted approach to this. I'd like to think that this shit-show will have driven any undecided's and maybe even a sizeable chunk of Spanish nationalists over to Yes.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Thistle_do_nicely