What is the point of Labour ?

[RuMoore]

4 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Think longterm. A Starmer win validates a “Labour” Party that is Tory-lite, and thus invites the Tories back in a few years (when middle England fancies the real thing again). I’d rather the actual Tory Party self-immolates than the Labour Party simply steps into its shoes and the jolly knight claims it a vindication for sensible right-wing, immigrant-crushing politics.

I personally think views on independence are best recieved when non party political. 

As a lot of people say the Indy cause is bigger than the SNP as a political party so surely on the contrary it shouldn't really matter who is in Westminster but at the same time you'd want the lesser of two evils no matter how marginal you think the evilness is no?

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

Well aye... when in direct comparison with Rishi Sunak of the Conservative party then yes I 100% prefer Starmer as I'd hope most people on here would irrespective of their Indy opinions. 

A bit like deciding whether one would rather be robbed and shot, or diagnosed terminal but given a pleasant hospice. Either way, I’d be disappointed.

[RuMoore]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

A bit like deciding whether one would rather be robbed and shot, or diagnosed terminal but given a pleasant hospice. Either way, I’d be disappointed.

I appreciate what you're going for but I think every single human being on the planet would prefer to be robbed and shot over being diagnosed with a terminal illness still...

Edited April 10, 2023 by RuMoore

[Antlion]

Just now, RuMoore said:

I personally think views on independence are best recieved when non party political. 

As a lot of people say the Indy cause is bigger than the SNP as a political party so surely on the contrary it shouldn't really matter who is in Westminster but at the same time you'd want the lesser of two evils no matter how marginal you think the evilness is no?

I didn’t actually mention independence. I’m talking about the UK. If Starmer wins, he reintroduces a shitter Blairite Labour Party, which damages the potential of a left-wing alternative long-term. If Sunak wins, he might - just might - continue inadvertently destroying the Tories, causing maximum damage as he does so.

Both options are shit, and these are the only options in the UK.

[Mark Connolly]

If you don't want Labour or the Tories, you could always vote for someone else...

Spoiler

 

[StellarHibee]

3 hours ago, RuMoore said:

Well aye... when in direct comparison with Rishi Sunak of the Conservative party then yes I 100% prefer Starmer as I'd hope most people on here would irrespective of their Indy opinions. 

I think he's worse than Sunak.

[ICTJohnboy]

34 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

I think he's worse than Sunak.

 

Two things I don't like about him...

His face.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Whilst I can theoretically see the attraction of a Tory win in the next GE boosting SNP support, in reality it would a complete and utter disaster, not just for Scotland, but the entire UK. At the moment the Tories know they're fucked, so they're ripping the absolute arse out of it in terms of corruption, horrendous right wing policies and general cuntery. If they somehow win another five years, they'll think they're untouchable and we'll have further erosion of voting rights and brutal welfare reform to look forward to, in fact we'll probably be well on the way to a fully authoritarian right wing government which will be nigh on impossible to remove. Devolved parliaments will probably be completely neutered as well. There is nothing more dangerous in politics than an emboldened Conservative government. 

As much as i despise what Labour have become over the last 15-20 years, Starmer's diet Tory pish will be still be preferable to the full-fat version. 

[StellarHibee]

1 hour ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

in fact we'll probably be well on the way to a fully authoritarian right wing government which will be nigh on impossible to remove.

That's exactly what Labour are turning into themselves. Keir "police officers on every street" Starmer will follow exactly the same agenda. It's a loss for freedom and democracy regardless of which party (in name only) squirms into power.

[Antlion]

33 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

That's exactly what Labour are turning into themselves. Keir "police officers on every street" Starmer will follow exactly the same agenda. It's a loss for freedom and democracy regardless of which party (in name only) squirms into power.

Pretty much. A Tory win under Sunak endangers people’s lives and rights in the short term, which is bad. A Labour win under Starmer endangers UK politics by ensuring a right-ward lurch which will be longterm (and your lives and rights will still be endangered if you happen to be disliked by the Daily Mail). This is also bad.

So any preference between these shits is negligible. It comes down to whether you think a Tory win will further damage that party (ideally permanently) or whether you think an amoral nothing like Starmer is worth having (or not) because the right-wing lurch he’ll encourage in UK politics won’t last. (My feeling is that it will last; if Starmer can claim a victory by chasing far-right votes, it’ll shape Labour tactics for the future - and the problem is that by pandering to the right, you only enable the extremists to make greater demands.)

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

So any preference between these shits is negligible. It comes down to whether you think a Tory win will further damage that party (ideally permanently) or whether you think an amoral nothing like Starmer is worth having (or not) because the right-wing lurch he’ll encourage in UK politics won’t last. (My feeling is that it will last; if Starmer can claim a victory by chasing far-right votes, it’ll shape Labour tactics for the future - and the problem is that by pandering to the right, you only enable the extremists to make greater demands.)

 

Totally agree.

It's degenerated into two cheeks of the WM arsehole.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[StellarHibee]

1 minute ago, Marlo Stanfield said:

The laughs if an SNP with 5 seats finally holds the balance of power.

[ScotiaNostra]

between the tories and labour id still always go with labour with it giving at least a chance of things improving in the short term

[MazzyStar]

[Leith Green]

2 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

The laughs if an SNP with 5 seats finally holds the balance of power.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

2 hours ago, Marlo Stanfield said:

If Starmer has managed to Kris Iwelumo this, he should resign/be binned forthwith (and replaced by another non-entity suit tbf) 

[Lurkst]

6 hours ago, Marlo Stanfield said:

Sir Keith's going to Kinnock this isn't he?

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

Sir Keith's going to Kinnock this isn't he?

 

With budget opportunities for the Tories and a hostile press courtesy of the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc, I'd not be in the least surprised. 

Add to that the Tories pulling together if they get skelped in the English local elections AND the new voter ID requirements and Starmer's coat could be on a shoogly hook earlier than some might think. 

 

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Lurkst said:

Sir Keith's going to Kinnock this isn't he?

Aye, the attack ads are going down well.

Masquerading as Tory-lite isn't the vote winner that Keith thinks it is. Its hard to know what the man actually believes in or what his vision is.