The F1 Thread

[senorsoupe]

1 hour ago, Snafu said:

Not sure how this will pan out now, could be a few options for CGR on how they deal with this situation. Seems unlikely they will have Palou as a driver if he doesn't want to be there. He therefore also cannot drive for anyone else in Indycar unless that contract is bought out. Palou could be looking at sitting out the season next year, however both F1 and *Formula E don't cause a clash of interest so I'm guessing that Zak Brown will be doing some swapping, moving his drivers around, maybe placing Palou in Formula E for a season. The other option is replacing Ricciardo with Palou. From what I've heard O Ward is locked into Indycars for a few more years unlikely to play apart in the switcheroo. Lando Norris is F1 McLaren's big investment so he won't move. *McLaren have recently announced that they will be running a team in Formula E for next season.

On the subject of Daniel Ricciardo it seems ever likely that he will remain with McLaren F1 until the end of the season and he is contracted through next season as well. Could be as suggested earlier an Indycar option or maybe a season with the new Formula E team for him?

I think it depends on how Ricciardo's contract is worded.  Is he contracted to drive in F1?  Or just to drive for McLaren?  Pato O'Ward has said that his contract allows for McLaren to place him anywhere they wish, so if McLaren has that clause (or vagueness) in Riccardo's contract then that could be the reason they use to place him in Indycar.  

Palou is racing this weekend for Ganassi in Toronto and claims that he's focused, yet he made an unforced error in P2 this morning

[jimmy boo]

4 hours ago, Snafu said:

Not sure how this will pan out now, could be a few options for CGR on how they deal with this situation. Seems unlikely they will have Palou as a driver if he doesn't want to be there. He therefore also cannot drive for anyone else in Indycar unless that contract is bought out. Palou could be looking at sitting out the season next year, however both F1 and *Formula E don't cause a clash of interest so I'm guessing that Zak Brown will be doing some swapping, moving his drivers around, maybe placing Palou in Formula E for a season. The other option is replacing Ricciardo with Palou. From what I've heard O Ward is locked into Indycars for a few more years unlikely to play apart in the switcheroo. Lando Norris is F1 McLaren's big investment so he won't move. *McLaren have recently announced that they will be running a team in Formula E for next season.

On the subject of Daniel Ricciardo it seems ever likely that he will remain with McLaren F1 until the end of the season and he is contracted through next season as well. Could be as suggested earlier an Indycar option or maybe a season with the new Formula E team for him?

Colton Herta for McLaren in F1 next season and Ricciardo going the other way.

[Boo Khaki]

George Russell is the type of guy who - can pitch up at a top F1 team, embarrass a seven time world champion, and yet still have the UK F1 media desperately ignoring that and pretending it isn't happening.

[Mr. Brightside]

Toto has some brass neck, eh?

[ajwffc]

So Mercedes winning it all good
Red Bull and Ferrari actually competing at the front Bad.
Also going by twitter;
Mercedes finding loopholes smart and intelligent design
Red Bull and Ferrari using loopholes they must be punished for cheating.

[Boo Khaki]

It's amusing how the bosses of dominant manufacturers in F1 invariably turn into whinging, entitled infants blaming everyone and everything but themselves as soon as that dominance wanes. It happened with Williams, it happened with McLaren, and now it's happening with Wolf and Mercedes. Just needs a spying scandal, an enormous fine, and a championship disqualification now.

I think it's a cert Merc will piss off before Porsche and Audi turn up. They won't want to play second fiddle to another German marque as well as looking like also-rans to a pair of 'independent' entries, though it is a stretch giving RB and Ferrari that label nowadays. Can't say I'll miss them, because just like Williams and McLaren before them, they've seamlessly become the soulless, joy-sucking engineering entity that just happens to race cars, and F1 will far better for seeing the back of them.

[vikingTON]

Here we have some truly desperate clutching at straws:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/22/norris-feels-lucky-to-race-in-lewis-hamilton-era-before-french-grand-prix

Quote

Perhaps Hamilton’s most singular achievement is having won one race in every season he has competed in, a feat unmatched by any other driver

That's probably because other drivers were driving Minardis, Jordans, Toro Rossos and a heap of other total fucking bangers at the start of their careers. All this confirms is that Hamilton has been the privileged dauphin figure of an overwhelmingly British-based sport ever since he entered the scene.

But the injustices never cease of course.

[Boo Khaki]

Was it the University of Bristol (? cannae mind) that did that weighted study that concluded what I've always believed, i.e. all other things being equal Schumi and Senna would both have completely wiped the floor with the wee nyaff, and the reality is that far from being the GOAT, he isn't even in the same ballpark as the genuine greats.

[vikingTON]

Here's the Constructors' placings since Saint Lewis heroically beat the odds against British drivers and made his way onto the grid:

McLaren - 1st in points (officially excluded); 2nd: 3rd; 2nd: 2nd; 3rd.

Mercedes - 2nd and then 1st every single season of the hybrid era since 2014.

A real testament to his ability to pluckily wring out at least one win out of 18-24 races with a front-runner car each season! 

[Boo Khaki]

I always find it amusing to remind myself that the three seasons he shared identical machinery with career #2 Jenson Button, Button outscored him 672 points to 657, including an absolute thrashing in the 2011 Championship when Button finished runner-up driving a car that was supposedly too shite for the GOAT to achieve anything with. 

He also lost a World Championship driving identical machinery to Nico Rosberg, and is on course to finish this season adrift of George Russell.

I don't even need to look at the record books to know that getting pumped in the championship standings by a mediocre team mate in identical machinery was not something that ever happened (schumi leg-break season excepted) to any of the blokes he's supposedly 'up there' with.

More than anything though, the one abiding thing that, for me at least, cements Hamilton in the realms of 'over rated and never out-drove his machinery', is the sheer number of fucking times he comes on the radio demanding to be spoon-fed a strategy, then kicks up f**k and throws a tantrum when it doesn't work. "Why have you put me on these tyres, man?". Well why the f**k weren't you on the radio beforehand demanding the 'correct' tyres then you arsehole? He completely lacks that mental oversight that both Schumi and Senna had that enabled them to plan and strategise their own race, including adapting the plan on the fly as the race developed. Considering this deficiency, and the fact that I genuinely believe he isn't on a par with either of those in pure driving ability either, I can not for the life of me understand why he's ever mentioned as being in the same company. The '7 titles' thing is bullshit. Considering the machinery he's been handed, and the comparative lack of genuine rivals bar a 4-5 year Vettel purple patch, it's baffling that he has only managed 7.

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I always find it amusing to remind myself that the three seasons he shared identical machinery with career #2 Jenson Button, Button outscored him 672 points to 657, including an absolute thrashing in the 2011 Championship when Button finished runner-up driving a car that was supposedly too shite for the GOAT to achieve anything with. 

Button being a distinct upgrade on the *checks notes* 'Heikki Kovalainen' figure who was put into the car to make Hamilton look better by default. 

Rumour has it he's wanting Ricciardo or Latifi as team mate next season. 

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Button being a distinct upgrade on the *checks notes* 'Heikki Kovalainen' figure who was put into the car to make Hamilton look better by default. 

Rumour has it he's wanting Ricciardo or Latifi as team mate next season. 

Well Williams or Indicar is about his level these days.

[Sarto Mutiny]

As good as Hamilton is, I think Fernando Alonso is better. That 2012 season was probably the greatest single season from any driver in my time watching the sport. To nearly win the title in a car that was, at best, the 4th best on the grid was utterly miraculous

[afc_36_0]

As good as Hamilton is, I think Fernando Alonso is better. That 2012 season was probably the greatest single season from any driver in my time watching the sport. To nearly win the title in a car that was, at best, the 4th best on the grid was utterly miraculous

His team choices have arguably ruined his own career.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

18 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Was it the University of Bristol (? cannae mind) that did that weighted study that concluded what I've always believed, i.e. all other things being equal Schumi and Senna would both have completely wiped the floor with the wee nyaff, and the reality is that far from being the GOAT, he isn't even in the same ballpark as the genuine greats.

I'm fairly sure Hamilton (and indeed Schumi) have been quoted as acknowledging Senna as the greatest. Schumi is also definitely better than Hamilton.

Also I've said this before, but for all the tears over Abu Dhabi last year, there is no fucking way that Verstappen would ever have got past either peak Schumi or peak Senna in that situation. Hamilton convinced himself it was "being manipulated man" and bottled it. 

Hamilton is definitely a top 5 driver of the modern era tbf. 

[Sarto Mutiny]

His team choices have arguably ruined his own career.

Yes. He could have joined Red Bull in 2008, for example.

[Boo Khaki]

You wouldn't expect Schumi to have said anything else, but personally I've always believed that if you put the two of them in the same car over a longer period, Schumi would have eventually gotten the better of Senna. I think there's a cigarette paper between them though, hence why I think it would have to be a large sample size before you saw any real difference.

I think it's fair to call Hamilton top 5 in his own era, but I'd agree with @Sarto Mutiny that if you were starting from scratch, I'd take Alonso ahead of him. Hamilton has been fortunate that Alonso is one of those drivers who always seems to end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, other than Vettel's RB heyday, and Verstappen of the past couple of years, he hasn't really had any persistent or consistent competition. Kimi bettered him for one year then mailed it in, Massa equalled him for one season then never again. Alonso was always in the wrong team, Vettel lost it years ago, Schumi was well past his best in his Merc comeback, even Rosberg jacked it immediately after beating him. Top 5 of his era is fine, but then who would the other four be? Alonso, Verstappen, Vettel, maybe Leclerc? Leclerc can hardly be said to be 'competition' for Hamilton  because prior to this season he's really only been in a genuinely competitive car for one other year. Alonso was out of the sport for a couple of years and spent most of the rest of it driving dugshit Minardis, Ferraris, McLarens, and Renaults. In reality Alonso has really only had a title-capable car in perhaps four of his F1 seasons. The two Renault titles, the 2007 McLaren which he would have easily romped to a title in had McLaren had the common sense to fully favour him, and the 2010 Ferrari that he really should have beaten Vettel with. Contrast that with Hamilton's machinery.

[vikingTON]

What's the cut-off for the current era: post-Schumacher/Ferrari or the hybrid era from 2014? 

Edited July 23, 2022 by vikingTON

[Boo Khaki]

Well if we're talking about 'Hamilton' era then surely it begins in 2007, so post-Schumi. Although I can see why some people might suggest that he transcends two distinct era with the hybrid thing and how badly Vettel fell away at the same point.

[vikingTON]

You could definitely pick either as the beginning of the era but it probably matters most in dealing with Leclerc. He's not had a great car but has shown good pace for every year since starting, while Vettel and Alonso genuinely struggled to get to grips with the hybrid cars early doors. Obviously they haven't achieved anything in terms of wins/championships since 2014 either, but their performances have still been impressive given the banger cars at their disposal. Alpine would not have a race win to their name if Alonso hadn't held off Saint Lewis for as long as he did at Hungary. 

The biggest difference between Leclerc last season and Hamilton's so-called achievement in winning a single race per season at McLaren is that until this year the leading hybrid cars have been bulletproof in terms of reliability. A mechanical failure last season was a huge turning point for both Verstappen and Hamilton's chances; whereas in 2010 or something and above all this year there's no guarantee that the dominant cars are actually making it to the chequered flag. 

TL;Dr version: More dramatic engine failures = a better sport.