The Gender Debate

[Leith Green]

21 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

So you won't be watching any of the World Cup matches then?

Or keeping track of updates as the tournament progresses?

Its not difficult to ignore - get yersel a hobby.

I will continue trying to master the solo from Sweet Child o Mine while its on............and while the skills (sic) may not be better than those on display in Qatar at least I wont be tacitly accepting of that regime (or the corrupt fuckers in FIFA) by consuming the advertising.

[scottsdad]

6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I won't be either but then I haven't watched much World Cup football since the late 90s.

98 was the last time I watched substantial parts of any of it.

I'm just wondering how many of those on this thread will once again put their morals aside as soon as the whistle blows.

I genuinely had a hard time during qualification. Wanting us to make it to a WC, but not this WC.

Think of watching matches at stadiums where people died to build them. The kafala system in Qatar allows businesses to confiscate workers' passports and stop them leaving the country. Since 2010 over 6000 migrant workers have died in Qatar, including at least 37 directly working on these stadiums. I cannot get my head around fans and players all cheering and laughing, jumping up and down on a spot where some poor, virtually enslaved guy died.

[Alert Mongoose]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Oh alright, I'll give it a try. I'm  not making any promises though.

Temporary wid.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

So you won't be watching any of the World Cup matches then?

Or keeping track of updates as the tournament progresses?

Yep boycotting it too. Felt Scotland should have withdrawn from qualifying too, im glad they threw the play off to make a moral stand however. Football used to be the sport of the working person, i’d genuinely love to ask Fifa what the acceptable number of slave worker death is before they withdraw the world cup. Much like Saudi Arabia sportswashing themselves with LIV i find giving support to events sponsored or hosted by states like Qatar and Saudi etc to be disgraceful. 

[johnnydun]

It won't be to hard to ignore in Scotland, but still have the Football fix.

The Championship and everything below is still going ahead throughout the WC.

[Florentine_Pogen]

11 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yep boycotting it too. Felt Scotland should have withdrawn from qualifying too, im glad they threw the play off to make a moral stand however. Football used to be the sport of the working person, i’d genuinely love to ask Fifa what the acceptable number of slave worker death is before they withdraw the world cup. Much like Saudi Arabia sportswashing themselves with LIV i find giving support to events sponsored or hosted by states like Qatar and Saudi etc to be disgraceful. 

Despotic shitholes such as Saudi & Qatar will ultimately make it onto 'The World Stage of Respectability' but sadly, only a matter of years before Planet Earth dies.

So much effort for so little return.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

7 hours ago, Donathan said:

So basically, the common arguments against are just thinly veiled discriminatory dog whistles against the tiny minority of the population that wish to live as the opposite gender to what their body suggests?

 

This debate seems to get way too much airtime tbh. 

It very much has echoes of clause 28 in 2000.  Back then it was protecting children, now it is protecting women. Basically presenting the gays and trans as dirty and dangerous. Very much appealing to prejudice. My auld auntie used to describe gays as “ perverts” based on nothing at all.

For this fabled man dressed as a women in the girls changing rooms to perv or assualt? What exactly do we have to prevent that right now? The law? But what else, bouncers on the door checking your legal gender before yoi go in? Moan tae f**k

[Kenneth840]

On 27/10/2022 at 15:57, Dawson Park Boy said:

This should be a matter which is left to individual conscience.

Just daft that it’s a whipping matter.

Wonder how the fellow ? Mason will vote?

Only B

[Billy Jean King]

The JKRs of this world are all just parodies of Jay from the Inbetweeners.

[sophia]

9 hours ago, ICTChris said:

 it isn't a bad career move for a politician in the Highlands to be a Wee Free.  I'm sure Blackford began attending Free Church services around the time of his election.

Citation?

[BFTD]

Good to see Oaksoft (who doesn't watch football despite regularly posting on a football forum) bemoaning people watching the World Cup despite the Qatari government and FIFA being scumbags.

Looking forward to next week's sequel, where he castigates those boycotting it for virtue signalling  

[Guest]

14 hours ago, scottsdad said:

On this point, I can see where James Cleverley is coming from. As Foreign Secretary he has a responsibility for the safety of British tourists traveling abroad. So here what he said was really to try to reduce the chances of visitors to Qatar causing offence which could lead to violence/imprisonment etc. Respect the local laws is standard advice for anyone traveling abroad.

He did throw LGBT Muslims under the bus, though. He should've said "these are homophobic countries". By instead saying "these are Muslim countries", he endorsed the idea that Muslim society necessarily and by definition must be homophobic. For LGBT Muslims, countering that idea is their great struggle.

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

He did throw LGBT Muslims under the bus, though.

I think that's what ISIS did with them.

[101]

Bizzare that you would quit your ministerial post over some concerns you have, at round 1 of the bill. 

If she had legitimate concerns vote it through at stage 1 and table an amendment.

[carpetmonster]

33 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

T

The whole trans thing is bizarre. Things being forced through. No discussion allowed. Any questioning brings immediate accusations of transphobia. 

The GRA Reform Act has had two consultations, which is more than any other bill in Scottish Government history. If folks are getting their panties in a bunch over legislation that simply allows you to amend a birth certificate without first having to wait 3+ years for a diagnosis of mental illness, that doesn't look great for them. 

33 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's truly fascinating to see science simply being over-ridden by activism in this way. And it's not obvious why it's being done like this. I wonder if it's an over-reaction to what happened with the battle for same-sex rights. Whichever side of the debate you are on, this simply isn't a good way to bring in legislation.

It hasn't been. It is. It's not. As said, it's the most consulted on bill in SG History. 

I do get your concern, but as far as I know, there's no plans to change any laws around the rights to be an attention seeking tragedy, so you should be fine. Please be assured if they do, you'll have my every support in your screaming 'look at MEEEEEEEEE' outside Holyrood. 

[Leith Green]

25 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's truly fascinating to see science simply being over-ridden by activism in this way. And it's not obvious why it's being done like this.

I dont think that is at all true, you are conflating the current Bill with gender reassigment surgery.

The Telegraph article, for example basically screams about children being operated on without consent............which is clearly drivel and cant legally happen.

It also talks about one person who had a double mastectomy some time back and has now had buyers remorse and decided that she wants to be a woman again. 

That is certainly a tragic story but this Bill would have had zero impact on that case.

I think there is a world of difference in a Bill which allows people to self identify as whatever gender they wish..................and people taking the ultimate step of complex life changing gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment in order to finally transition, which has never been easy to access or just like booking in for your MOT.

If you read these articles, you would be under the misapprehension that all you need to do is book an appointment at Sandiford, pop along in your lunch hour and get your nadgers hacked off.

Clearly people who want this treatment - and especially so on the NHS - will have spoken at length with their GP, and there is no way on earth that any GP will simply refer them on a whim.

[Granny Danger]

It's utterly astounding that so much discussion can be devoted to how people want to self identify.  It’s not surprising that those on the wrong side of the debate are those arseholes* who are on the wrong side of every other debate.

* I would have said c**t instead of arsehole, but apparently that is no longer allowed.

[carpetmonster]

1 minute ago, Leith Green said:

 

Clearly people who want this treatment - and especially so on the NHS - will have spoken at length with their GP, and there is no way on earth that any GP will simply refer them on a whim.

And then a whole cadre of specialists. And been on HRT for a period of years prior to surgery. It’s easy enough to find the whole process on the NHS website, but that doesn’t sell newspapers or stir the loins of simpletons. 
 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

[Leith Green]

14 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

And then a whole cadre of specialists. And been on HRT for a period of years prior to surgery. It’s easy enough to find the whole process on the NHS website, but that doesn’t sell newspapers or stir the loins of simpletons. 
 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

I think the problem - for the hard of thinking - is that in the current system, in order to identify as another gender people must have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

The law as it stands means that you must "live as a woman" for at least 2 years but retain, say, a passport and documents calling them a man (for example).

Imagine the practical difficulties, embarassment and mental health issues that must throw up??

Under the proposals the SG is tabling, people can shortcut a lot of that, identify as their chosen gender and then - if they so choose - go down the still lengthy and difficult reassignment journey.

It doesnt seem that difficult to understand, I cant fathom why people get themselves in such a fucking state about it.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Leith Green

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

And then a whole cadre of specialists.  

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

If COVID taught us one thing it's that specialists are all shite.