Nicola Sturgeon Arrested, Peter Murrell Charged

[AyrExile]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

What are the "more serious" offences that are being rumoured?

Not trying to dig you out, its just I cant take some of the wild nonsense on twitter seriously.

I mean, without having a pop at anyone living there, the Sturgeons were not exactly living in a crime lord villa and holidaying in their marbella pad - they have a semi detached house in Uddingston and a motorhome in fife......................

If we are giving credence to allegations that the Stugeons embezzled money from the party, then we may as well also say this has all the feel of another Crown Office shambles.

With the drop in membership fees was the Snp solvent as an organisation. It could be the case that govt cash was used to finance party business instead of being spent on da peeple 

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

What are the "more serious" offences that are being rumoured?

Not trying to dig you out, its just I cant take some of the wild nonsense on twitter seriously.

I mean, without having a pop at anyone living there, the Sturgeons were not exactly living in a crime lord villa and holidaying in their marbella pad - they have a semi detached house in Uddingston and a motorhome in fife......................

If we are giving credence to allegations that the Stugeons embezzled money from the party, then we may as well also say this has all the feel of another Crown Office shambles.

If I was to have a guess, I expect Murrell has been doing a few dodgy things, leaving the spending of the £600k to one side. Which comes down to was it restricted for spending on IndyRef2 and what actually constitutes spend on IndyRef2? Which is a bit of a question for a technocrat which will all come down to the wording on the crowdfunding website.

I suspect (this is guesswork, I have no evidence) he may have done some or all of the following. The reason I reference these that they are all financial and have been seen before:

1) personal expense claims which aren't business expenses

2) has bought assets through the party and reimbursed the party

3) increased own salary without committee approval and increased own employer pension contributions (without approval).

This the sort of financial crime you hear about in businesses. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's hard to say for sure as it's covered by contempt of court. Anyone who does know what's alleged can't breathe a word. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Trogdor

[Thorongil]

5 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

The motorhome and villa, dont seem to be out of their means. Id be very surprised if theres any issues related to them benefiting personally. I think this is more about complete inept governance of the finances that potentially crosses the line.

And then the hiding of said f**k ups and the deliberate actions taken to stop other people asking questions. Lying to auditors would also be bad and could cross the threshold to be fraud. 

I think some of the magic £600k was spent on hefty salaries for their mates being given jobs in the party to do absolutely no work. Like Sue Ruddick in the COO job which was made up for her and the like of Biagi’s independence task force consultant role.

[Leith Green]

15 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

If I was to have a guess, I expect Murrell has been doing a few dodgy things, leaving the spending of the £600k to one side. Which comes down to was it restricted for spending on IndyRef2 and what actually constitutes spend on IndyRef2? Which is a bit of a question for a technocrat which will all come down to the wording on the crowdfunding website.

I suspect (this is guesswork, I have no evidence) he may have done some or all of the following. The reason I reference these that they are all financial and have been seen before:

1) personal expense claims which aren't business expenses

2) has bought assets through the party and reimbursed the party

3) increased own salary without committee approval and increased own employer pension contributions (without approval).

This the sort of financial crime you hear about in businesses. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's hard to say for sure as it's covered by contempt of court. Anyone who does know what's alleged can't breathe a word. 

Cheers, thats kinda the items I thought (I am with you, the £600k stuff can probably be argued semantically by lawyers for years with no ultimate clarity so I discount that, the only people clinging to that theory are the type of Alba Das who hang on every word published by Wings).

Your 1,2,3 above

Expenses? Minor matter, perhaps a sacking job but hardly meritorious of the vast search.

Buying assets via the party funds?  Now your talking, thats actual fraud.

The salary one?  Again, perhaps a sacking job and rearrangement of how people are salaried at SNP exec level, but again not close to the kind of search we have seen.

If Murrell has committed fraud and there is a paper trail, he is done for (and so is Sturgeon, frankly). 

 

[Trogdor]

28 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Cheers, thats kinda the items I thought (I am with you, the £600k stuff can probably be argued semantically by lawyers for years with no ultimate clarity so I discount that, the only people clinging to that theory are the type of Alba Das who hang on every word published by Wings).

Your 1,2,3 above

Expenses? Minor matter, perhaps a sacking job but hardly meritorious of the vast search.

Buying assets via the party funds?  Now your talking, thats actual fraud.

The salary one?  Again, perhaps a sacking job and rearrangement of how people are salaried at SNP exec level, but again not close to the kind of search we have seen.

If Murrell has committed fraud and there is a paper trail, he is done for (and so is Sturgeon, frankly). 

I broadly agree with how you see it. It would have to be fraud to impact Sturgeon. The whole rigmarole and chaos since she resigned has already knocked her standing.

The vast search is the strange bit though. I'm no expert on Police searches but it was visible and vast. Multiple locations, at least 30/40 officers. Which feels like overkill, unless its just for the optics of Police Scotland (look - no-one is above the law!). If it was for the optics, it's a dreadful misuse of resources.

Just on the Alba das - Craig Murray seems to be going all in on something to do with Gupta and Liberty Steel. Even so far as to link it to the Murrell investigation. I don't see how that is even tangible tbh but also worth keeping an eye on what they are thinking (with a heavy dose of salt at the ready!).

[ScotiaNostra]

1 hour ago, Thorongil said:

And then the hiding of said f**k ups and the deliberate actions taken to stop other people asking questions. Lying to auditors would also be bad and could cross the threshold to be fraud. 

I think some of the magic £600k was spent on hefty salaries for their mates being given jobs in the party to do absolutely no work. Like Sue Ruddick in the COO job which was made up for her and the like of Biagi’s independence task force consultant role.

Covering up something has looked pretty clear for a couple years, interesting to see what it actually was

I never thought about his salary or others but who knows

[ScotiaNostra]

I think its possible someone within SNP who has picked up some role and looked at books to some extent has given police something. Imagine your starting a new role in a party with rumours of financial mismanagement and first thing you see are some dodgy things. You make sure you are clearly where the lines drawn, any delays and you potentially end up part of the cover-up. Its a possibility anyway.

It could explain the timing and the size of the investigation

Edited April 10, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[Leith Green]

50 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Craig Murray seems to be going all in on something to do with Gupta and Liberty Steel. Even so far as to link it to the Murrell investigation.

On the basis that certain banks recently changed hands for £1, its not that different with the steel plants "£5" deal.

The issue is that the Scot Gov seemingly guaranteed loans worth £500m to secure the jobs and industry. The problem now is that UK steel is very expensive due to power costs.

If it all collapses, on top of the ferries nonsense, then it will be seen - correctly - as another disaster - its not fraud though, Craig Murray must love prison food............

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

The problem now is that UK steel is very expensive due to power costs.

On the other hand the Lochaber aluminium works should be quids in with their own hydro power, huge competitive advantage. Silver lining maybe. 

[coprolite]

Satanic sex crimes, that's what it is. 

[Jacksgranda]

4 hours ago, Thorongil said:

And then the hiding of said f**k ups and the deliberate actions taken to stop other people asking questions. Lying to auditors would also be bad and could cross the threshold to be fraud. 

I think some of the magic £600k was spent on hefty salaries for their mates being given jobs in the party to do absolutely no work. Like Sue Ruddick in the COO job which was made up for her and the like of Biagi’s independence task force consultant role.

£600,000 wouldn't go far on hefty salaries for mates. 3 mates @ £100,000 p/a = 2 years.

[ICTChris]

Humza Yusuf has confirmed that the auditors actually resigned six months ago. I’m sure it’s all perfectly fine.

[ScotiaNostra]

It would seem to me that surely more knew that the auditors resigned than just Murrell and Sturgeon. I just dont believe that other Senior SNP people didnt know that.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Have there been any hints about when a decision about charges will be made or not?

[Musketeer Gripweed]

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Have there been any hints about when a decision about charges will be made or not?

Not that I've seen. The sooner the better either way. The drip drip drip of bad news need to stop at some point.

[The_Kincardine]

21 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Not that I've seen. The sooner the better either way. The drip drip drip of bad news need to stop at some point.

Drip?  It's not a dripping tap, it's a burst pipe and is only going to get worse for the thicket of chancers, shysters and grifters that you and yours polluted Scotland with and whom we've been warning you about for years.

Don't worry, though, Bunter's on the case and, "calls for SNP unity to keep public trust" - which is amusing:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c4133f60-d799-11ed-89ad-19e3cfc05db4?shareToken=75d1450398df9e9138bc8ed597b8ca80

[Leith Green]

You have to laugh at this auditors story.

Broken by the BBC that they resigned "in the wake of Murrell arrest" it was picked up and breathlessly regurgitated that the timing was  ABSOLUTE PROOF OF WRONGDOING ! 

Of course, once it was established that they in fact resigned ages ago this is now deemed to be  ABSOLUTE PROOF OF WRONGDOING !

It's actually quite amusing.

My money (as donated by P Murrell )is still on a complete farce by Police Scotland and the Crown office.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

6 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

You have to laugh at this auditors story.

Broken by the BBC that they resigned "in the wake of Murrell arrest" it was picked up and breathlessly regurgitated that the timing was  ABSOLUTE PROOF OF WRONGDOING ! 

Of course, once it was established that they in fact resigned ages ago this is now deemed to be  ABSOLUTE PROOF OF WRONGDOING !

It's actually quite amusing.

My money (as donated by P Murrell )is still on a complete farce by Police Scotland and the Crown office.

The standard of journalism, like a lot of other things, is dropping alarmingly. 

Why did the papers not pick up that Johnston Carmichael resigned? Why were they not looking for the reason why, because it is unlikely they just decided to do without the fee? Why has it taken 7 months & counting to identify new auditors - what is holding them back? Who would organise the RFP for the SNP?  Does the SNP have an audit committee, and if so why are they silent on the time taken/process of replacing JC?

If there is no story behind all this then that could have been  made clear by now by said journalists. Maybe it all has and I just missed it...

[Trogdor]

What is remarkable, if the auditors resigned six months ago, why haven't the SNP appointed new ones? Given their audited accounts need to be with the Electoral Commission by July.

They currently have no auditor, that's looking tight to contract with a new auditor, for them to handover with JC and audit the accounts. I expect they may need to seek an extension which is highly irregular.

Another gift as a result of the secrecy by which Murrell governed the party. More evidence of the catastrophically bald one running the party into the ground.