Lucy Letby guilty

[welshbairn]

24 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Has there been a thread on here about the Post Office Horizon scandal?

 

I think there was. There's still an enquiry going on but the people who knew exactly what was going on and did nothing about it have had zero punishment so far, one has been bumped up to the House of Lords. 

[Shadow Play]

10 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

For over 30 years I worked in the oil industry and for that whole time I knew that if I didn’t follow the rules and protocols, and as a result caused harm to people, then there was a strong probability that I would end up in court, not the company, but me. The same should apply to anyone who didn't follow protocols in this case.

Am I correct in saying nobody ever got prosecuted for the Piper Alpha disaster?  

[Richey Edwards]

9 minutes ago, Soapy FFC said:

For over 30 years I worked in the oil industry and for that whole time I knew that if I didn’t follow the rules and protocols, and as a result caused harm to people, then there was a strong probability that I would end up in court, not the company, but me. The same should apply to anyone who didn't follow protocols in this case.

I am currently at university studying to become a mental health nurse, and prior to that worked in the care industry for over a decade. It was always drummed into me that policies and procedures MUST always be followed, because if anything adverse occurred and it turned out that I had not been following them then I would be majorly fucked. 

People say I'm a shitebag because I will not deviate from policies and procedures, but they're in place for a reason.

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said:

I am currently at university studying to become a mental health nurse, and prior to that worked in the care industry for over a decade. It was always drummed into me that policies and procedures MUST always be followed, because if anything adverse occurred and it turned out that I had not been following them then I would be majorly fucked. 

People say I'm a shitebag because I will not deviate from policies and procedures, but they're in place for a reason.

What loads of people in heavily proceduralised jobs seem to fail to realise is that in making the procedures to protect themselves, companies gave employees a bulletproof vest. Still many refuse to wear it...

[Cosmic Joe]

In many ways the health care system is more culpable than the individual here. 

From time to time there will be some seriously messed up folk. Messed up enough to go on a spree of killing the most vulnerable human beings. In this case babies. It's utterly tragic but surely avoidable. 

The non-messed up folk need to get their act together. 

The comparison with Savile is a "good" one. 

[Soapy FFC]

12 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

Am I correct in saying nobody ever got prosecuted for the Piper Alpha disaster?  

Two guys were named and blamed in a civil case, which was at odds from the official inquiry, but both were killed in the disaster. The company was never prosecuted as far as I am aware.

[Alert Mongoose]

It feels like this might also be a symptom of the drive to 'commercialise' services that are not really suitable for it.  Let's run these services like big business.  We therefore need a management structure like big business. 

Management structures in big business are layered with each management level generally have less and less a grasp of the day to day operations.  

That's not an attempt to absolve management of their responsibilities though. 

A tragedy for the parents caught up in it.

[invergowrie arab]

Whilst the hospital management absolutely need to be held accountable I'm not sure some of the colleagues aren't trying to defend their actions.

If you suspect someone is killing babies and management don't act then go to the police. Don't keep sending emails.

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

Whilst the hospital management absolutely need to be held accountable I'm not sure some of the colleagues aren't trying to defend their actions.

If you suspect someone is killing babies and management don't act then go to the police. Don't keep sending emails.

Yup. Watching Panorama at the moment and letting it continue for years while whining about the management doing nothing is inexcusable.

Edited August 18, 2023 by welshbairn

[diegomarahenry]

I kind of hoped that she would be found not guilty because the reverse is so difficult to comprehend. 

I read some of the stuff during the trial but stopped because I don't need that in my head, This and the lost profits nonce trial details are just something I don't need to know. 

[mathematics]

3 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

People say I'm a shitebag because I will not deviate from policies and procedures, but they're in place for a reason.

Stick with it.

[Richey Edwards]

5 minutes ago, mathematics said:

Stick with it.

I plan on it.

They're only insecure because they don't adhere to protocols & procedures.

[Ross.]

15 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Since Letby left the hospital's neonatal unit, there has been only one death in seven years.

Seen this stat reported in a few places and it’s the only thing that makes me think she is being used as a scapegoat for other issues. The unit was essentially shut down for a significant part of that 7 year period, when the higher than average death rate was noticed. The stat is being used to make her look more obviously guilty. Technically correct but needs contextualised. From what I have read I think she probably is guilty but when they have to push stats like that then I start to wonder a little.

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Seen this stat reported in a few places and it’s the only thing that makes me think she is being used as a scapegoat for other issues. The unit was essentially shut down for a significant part of that 7 year period, when the higher than average death rate was noticed. The stat is being used to make her look more obviously guilty. Technically correct but needs contextualised. From what I have read I think she probably is guilty but when they have to push stats like that then I start to wonder a little.

Only probably guilty? 

I'm not saying the headline stat isn't designed to magnify her guilt but that doesn't in any way detract from the evidence against her.  

[Ross.]

Just now, hk blues said:

Only probably guilty? 

I'm not saying the headline stat isn't designed to magnify her guilt but that doesn't in any way detract from the evidence against her.  

It doesn’t, I agree, but I always get suspicious when people in authority or large organisations start using stats like that to emphasise their point. Neonatal mortality rates in the UK are around the 3 in 1000. If they are reporting 1 in 7 years they are either miracle workers or they treat almost no neo natal cases. For a period of that 7 years, they treated none whatsoever. It’s a shit stat being used to make sure people have their minds made up, when it really isn’t needed. It just makes me suspicious of the motive of whoever is pushing it.

And only probably guilty because I haven’t read a huge amount into it. Most of what I have seen in the press is fairly damning but I know one person who works in that environment and her thoughts on it were far less cut and dried. 

[hk blues]

15 minutes ago, Ross. said:

It doesn’t, I agree, but I always get suspicious when people in authority or large organisations start using stats like that to emphasise their point. Neonatal mortality rates in the UK are around the 3 in 1000. If they are reporting 1 in 7 years they are either miracle workers or they treat almost no neo natal cases. For a period of that 7 years, they treated none whatsoever. It’s a shit stat being used to make sure people have their minds made up, when it really isn’t needed. It just makes me suspicious of the motive of whoever is pushing it.

And only probably guilty because I haven’t read a huge amount into it. Most of what I have seen in the press is fairly damning but I know one person who works in that environment and her thoughts on it were far less cut and dried. 

Obviously none of us are privy to all the evidence heard but even pushing aside the sheer circumstantial evidence against her, the notes she wrote are pretty damning.  Put the circumstantial evidence and the notes together and it's hard to argue with the verdict.  

I agree that the uncontexted stat being peddled is no more than a cheap shot but for me it's nothing to do with the case itself, window dressing if you will.  It may even be as simple as those in authority trying to paint a picture of an organisation that has learned from mistakes and put in place steps to ensure they're not repeated, and done so remarkably well.  

Pushing everything aside, it's unfathomable that she was able to get away with it for so long despite colleagues raising concerns again and again.  The mindset that "No, it can't be true - nobody would do such a thing so there must be some other explanation" surely can't hold true again and again and again.  That's what gets me most about this case, even more than the fact that a person could do this to a baby as horrendous as that is. And, it's not 'just' 7 babes, it's also the others who survived.  How much benefit of the doubt can a person reasonable give?

 

 

[ICTChris]

There are some people who have said that there are issues with the statistics used to convict Letby. I think when patterns of injury and deaths in units like this form part of the evidence there are always dissenting voices.

[Sergeant Wilson]

44 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

There are some people who have said that there are issues with the statistics used to convict Letby. I think when patterns of injury and deaths in units like this form part of the evidence there are always dissenting voices.

@Jacksgranda

[Jacksgranda]

15 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

@Jacksgranda

I need figures i.e. 2500 m3 reduced level, 1750 m3 hardcore fill, 87 m3 30N concrete,  95 nr 1200 diameter precast concrete manhole bases, not statistics, Sarge

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I need figures i.e. 2500 m3 reduced level, 1750 m3 hardcore fill, 87 m3 30N concrete,  95 nr 1200 diameter precast concrete manhole bases, not statistics, Sarge

I think they might've  noticed those quantities.