The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Beastie Russell]

2 hours ago, Dalgety Rover said:

Euan Murray…..

Would walk into our team and can play all across the back 4

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, SanStarko said:

The issue with that is who's going to take an injury prone player who's on good money.  Gullan and Ross were two of the contracts Sim called out in the AGM if I remember right, which would suggest they're on a decent amount of money.  

Which means we're stuck with them until their contracts end.  Which might be fine if it turns out all the surgeries this season has properly fixed the issues for them, or if Murray's idea about what's causing the issues is right.  But that's a big if.

Well, this is it. You can allow the player to speak to other clubs, but if there are no suitors then that's it. I don't think that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though. 

[raith1974]

For me we need at least 5 first team players. 2 x CBs, 1 x LB, 2 x ST. Over and above we need a centre mid if Spencer leaves, cover for Connolly as we have no natural replacement. If both Lang and Nolan leave then we would need 3 x CBs. I would also love to see another RB signed as our defence has been particularly poor. Maybe a pipe dream but we won't know until the new people come in.

[Hadji]

9 hours ago, TxRover said:

Who are you signing for the same or lesser cost? If you are signing for a higher cost, where are you cutting?

The hell do you base this nonsense on?

You have zero idea what the lads wages/digs/bonuses come to nor any idea of the playing budget at the Rovers this season never mind what it will be next season.

 

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, Raithie said:

How much is Nolan's wages? Be very specific. 

Which is EXACTLY my point. I believe he is likely one of our least expensive options for an average CB next season. I believe he’s done an acceptable job and developed. To say “I can’t believe anyone wants him” or such, smacks of fantasy with regard to costs and availability of replacements. IM and his team know, we suspect and exchange opinions on that basis.

[TxRover]

49 minutes ago, Hadji said:

The hell do you base this nonsense on?

You have zero idea what the lads wages/digs/bonuses come to nor any idea of the playing budget at the Rovers this season never mind what it will be next season.

 

So what the hell do you base pronouncing you cannot believe anyone desires to retain a player that started nearly 2/3 of our games? If he was the catastrophe you suggest, Dick and Lang with Ngwenya and Millen would have been much more prevalent.

[Hadji]

2 minutes ago, TxRover said:

So what the hell do you base pronouncing you cannot believe anyone desires to retain a player that started nearly 2/3 of our games? If he was the catastrophe you suggest, Dick and Lang with Ngwenya and Millen would have been much more prevalent.

I base it on watching him every week.

not on some fantasy I have of him being on a low wage and that being a good enough reason to keep him on.

 

 

 

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, R.R.FC said:

The below is based on if we have aspirations of pushing for the top 4 in what will be a difficult league next season. Budget may dictate differently, especially with what you would imagine are most of our higher earners already signed up for next season.

Under Contract:

Andy McNeil     
Ross Millen    
Scott Brown     
Ross Matthews    
Aaron Arnott   
Sam Stanton     
Ethan Ross   
Dylan Easton   
Lewis Vaughan     
Jamie Gullan

Keep:

Jamie MacDonald - Experienced solid reliable keeper at this level.

Robbie Thomson - By all accounts a very good coach and as good a number 2 keeper as we would be able to get.

Tom Lang - Was excellent the first couple of months when he first returned from injury but there has obviously been a drop off since then. Alongside an experienced centre back he can be a good player at this level as we saw beside Berra last season.

Jamie Masson - Think he has shown enough promise this season to deserve at least another year. Quite happy with him as either 4th choice centre back next season or possibly going out on loan League Two to get 30-40 games under his belt.

Scott McGill - Not a must retain but given our injury record, having someone that can fill in 4/5 positions to a decent level and be relatively cheap (you would imagine) would be worth keeping.

Aidan Connolly - Pretty obvious one. Obviously another one that has recently dropped off form wise but 25 goals across his last two seasons with us as well as putting in a power of work.

Release:

Ryan Nolan - He’s not the worst centre back we’ve ever had but I think this is one of the areas we need to improve to kick on. Quite happy for him to stick around as 3rd choice centre back but can’t imagine that would suit him.

Connor McBride - Not much explanation needed, just not good enough.

Luke Mahady - See above.

Akio, Goncalves and Ngwenya will also return to their parent clubs and I would not be looking to bring any back.

Undecided:

Liam Dick - May be reading too much into Murray’s post match comments yesterday but he mentioned liking having versatile players in his squad and names Liam Dick as one of those so I think he’ll stay. I’d be okay with that on the basis it was as cover and competition for both left back and centre back but not starting. He’s not a bad player, just feel like we need a more dynamic option down the left unless we move away from wingers who cut inside to out and out wingers who hug the touch line and provide the width themselves.

Brad Spencer - Really didn’t think last season I would be putting him in the undecided section. He’s been a very good player for us but this has been comfortably his poorest season. All things being equal I would still keep him but I would imagine he would be one of our higher earners and will have other options, not one we can get into a bidding war to keep.

Greig Young and Kieran Mitchell can be grouped together. If Dick leaves I’d be tempted to keep Young as back up, he’s looked fine whenever I’ve seen him but Murray will know better. Likewise Mitchell, I’d keep him as a squad option based on the limited amount I’ve seen but wouldn’t be too upset either way.

Obviously, we are 7th for a reason, we haven’t been good enough. Part of that is down to injuries (we have seen the difference in Partick and particularly Inverness since they got full squads back) but we also must improve in certain areas. However, I do think 4/5 quality additions in the right areas would make all the difference, I don’t think we need wholesale transformation.

 

Pretty fair analysis, considerations:

Jamie MacDonald - Expensive, will he accept a one year contract?

Tom Lang - Will he accept one year, or must it be two? If it’s one, especially if we don’t have a replacement, we have to keep him, but his performance overall has been worsening over the season. Is he expensive, is suspect so.

Masson/Nolan - Would prefer to keep both, and bring in a veteran CB as well, but budget will rule. Masson must be kept, Nolan is nice to keep.

Dick/Young - If we let Dick move on, we must sign Young (we should anyway). Liam is useful, and a decent player, but could we upgrade? Could Dick simply become the CB to replace Nolan and backstop giving Young a chance?

Mitchell - Has speed, has scored a few on his loans, is a striker, is going to be cheap, sign him.

[TxRover]

2 minutes ago, Hadji said:

I base it on watching him every week.

not on some fantasy I have of him being on a low wage and that being a good enough reason to keep him on.

You do realize that IM doesn’t agree with you? That’s what it mean when he okays him week after week with other options available. Anyway, your opinion is fine, incendiary comments about how the hell could you ever when the team seems to, are a bit excessive.

Anyway, here’s some food for thought, all this season:

Scottish FA Cup: 3-0-1 w/Nolan 100% of minutes.

Scottish Challenge Cup: 3-0-1 w/Nolan 100% of minutes until last 6’ of final while trailing…came on for 13’ in Cove win too.

Scottish Championship: 6-7-8 w/Nolan > 66’, 1-0-3 w/Nolan < 67’, 4-2-4 w/Nolan on bench or injuried.

When Nolan was playing, 5 loses came at the start of the season when we were scrambling, and 4 loses came late this season while we had the injury crisis.

[raith1974]

23 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Pretty fair analysis, considerations:

Jamie MacDonald - Expensive, will he accept a one year contract?

Tom Lang - Will he accept one year, or must it be two? If it’s one, especially if we don’t have a replacement, we have to keep him, but his performance overall has been worsening over the season. Is he expensive, is suspect so.

Masson/Nolan - Would prefer to keep both, and bring in a veteran CB as well, but budget will rule. Masson must be kept, Nolan is nice to keep.

Dick/Young - If we let Dick move on, we must sign Young (we should anyway). Liam is useful, and a decent player, but could we upgrade? Could Dick simply become the CB to replace Nolan and backstop giving Young a chance?

Mitchell - Has speed, has scored a few on his loans, is a striker, is going to be cheap, sign him.

I think you're getting this all wrong. You don't sign or resign players because they are cheap you do it because they are good enough. If Masson, Young and Mitchell aren't good enough then they go. 

Dick isn't a centre half, he's a left back that's okay but nothing special. He's had to fill in at centre back due to lack of numbers. 

This coming season the Championship is going to be extremely competitive and we don't need bit part players and players playing out of position. 

We will only know the direction of the club once the new people come in and signings are announced.

[Hadji]

10 minutes ago, TxRover said:

You do realize that IM doesn’t agree with you? That’s what it mean when he okays him week after week with other options available. Anyway, your opinion is fine, incendiary comments about how the hell could you ever when the team seems to, are a bit excessive.

Anyway, here’s some food for thought, all this season:

Scottish FA Cup: 3-0-1 w/Nolan 100% of minutes.

Scottish Challenge Cup: 3-0-1 w/Nolan 100% of minutes until last 6’ of final while trailing…came on for 13’ in Cove win too.

Scottish Championship: 6-7-8 w/Nolan > 66’, 1-0-3 w/Nolan < 67’, 4-2-4 w/Nolan on bench or injuried.

When Nolan was playing, 5 loses came at the start of the season when we were scrambling, and 4 loses came late this season while we had the injury crisis.

Other options? what other options?

There is two out and out senior centre halfs ones Lang the others nolan.

Those stats are pointless. Without Nolan either Liam Dick or Scott Brown have to play centre half and neither are specialists in that position meaning another reshuffel in personel and formation.

[TxRover]

2 minutes ago, Hadji said:

Other options? what other options?

There is two out and out senior centre halfs ones Lang the others nolan.

Those stats are pointless. Without Nolan either Liam Dick or Scott Brown have to play centre half and neither are specialists in that position meaning another reshuffel in personel and formation.

If Nolan was that bad, Brown or Dick WOULD have played, or Masson would have been given more opportunists, that’s my point that you’ve missed.

 

6 minutes ago, raith1974 said:

I think you're getting this all wrong. You don't sign or resign players because they are cheap you do it because they are good enough. If Masson, Young and Mitchell aren't good enough then they go. 

Dick isn't a centre half, he's a left back that's okay but nothing special. He's had to fill in at centre back due to lack of numbers. 

This coming season the Championship is going to be extremely competitive and we don't need bit part players and players playing out of position. 

We will only know the direction of the club once the new people come in and signings are announced.

We all wish that was true. Let’s face reality, RRFC are not a big spending club. We fish the bottom of the barrel, hoping to find and polish turds, discards, youth and those trying to break into FT football. If Vaughan had been healthy, he would have been away years ago, we could never have afforded to compete for him. If we had a youth team, perhaps we would see so flow from it, but the most recent results were less than thrilling.

A key element of that budget mindset is having players with some flexibility, for exactly the kind of injury crisis we just faced. Ideally we want to take, to use a FIFA analogy, the “85” striker…but our pool is too often a young “59”, an aging “63” and a “67” with an injury history. When you have to make a budget and have a choice between a “64” LB who can play CB at a “62” level or a “66” LB who can’t play CB to save his life, what choice do you make? We all like the better player, but IM has a job to balance the team to face contingencies.

Your last point is the best…but makes for a mighty boring discussion board until we know…let’s keep it spicy.

[Derry Alli]

Why would Lang be expensive?

He's a two bit show pony you signed OOC from Clyde

[Hadji]

8 minutes ago, TxRover said:

If Nolan was that bad, Brown or Dick WOULD have played, or Masson would have been given more opportunists, that’s my point that you’ve missed.

No i get your point and its not a valid one. 

Moving Scott Brown a centre midfielder (our best one) or Liam Dick a left back (our best one) out of their best position into a position that is not their natural one would mean moving other players in and weakening an already unbalanced squad further. Young Masson is no where near ready to be a starting centre half in the scottish championship.

Nolan and Lang are must starts as they are all we have due to circumstances. Next season we have to IMPROVE not just keep the status quo.

[TxRover]

3 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

Why would Lang be expensive?

He's a two bit show pony you signed OOC from Clyde

Because JMcG loaded us with several unfortunate contracts with risers…

1 minute ago, Hadji said:

No i get your point and its not a valid one. 

Moving Scott Brown a centre midfielder (our best one) or Liam Dick a left back (our best one) out of their best position into a position that is not their natural one would mean moving other players in and weakening an already unbalanced squad further. Young Masson is no where near ready to be a starting centre half in the scottish championship.

Nolan and Lang are must starts as they are all we have due to circumstances. Next season we have to IMPROVE not just keep the status quo.

OK, that’s a better explanation of why you think that, thank you. I see how you reached the argument, however, we still have a basic disagreement on one thing, in bold. The disagreement isn’t on that I want us to improve…I’m just not sure that the mythical two in the bush are achievable for us right now. This “take over” is really coming too late for next season to be triumphant, because everyone is already talking, offering and planning. Our budget, ownership and goals aren’t even settled, it’s kinda like last season redux.

We’re used to seeing a few PCA’s or re-signings by now, but “silence” prevails. IM only recently admitted to being able to talk to anyone, so we can assume he’s been able to talk a bit for some time, but with no progress noticeable/admitted, it’s worrisome. As you wish improvement, we need to improve the average/below average (striker, anyone) while keeping the above average…but is that really possible next year…we don’t know, but the signs aren’t encouraging.

 

[Derry Alli]

17 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Because JMcG loaded us with several unfortunate contracts with risers…

What "rise" would an out of contract player be getting after - by your own account - poor performances and the club hasn't achieved anything?

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, Derry Alli said:

What "rise" would an out of contract player be getting after - by your own account - poor performances and the club hasn't achieved anything?

He got it previous would be the point, no? Lang looked excellent before his injury, and came back looking good, but has shown a rashness that is not helping much more recently. He seems to perhaps need a rejigger of his mindset, perhaps an experienced CB partner would help more. Unfortunately, we’re in the position of juggling demands…to get an experienced CB, we likely have to snip somewhere else.

[raith1974]

35 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Because JMcG loaded us with several unfortunate contracts with risers…

OK, that’s a better explanation of why you think that, thank you. I see how you reached the argument, however, we still have a basic disagreement on one thing, in bold. The disagreement isn’t on that I want us to improve…I’m just not sure that the mythical two in the bush are achievable for us right now. This “take over” is really coming too late for next season to be triumphant, because everyone is already talking, offering and planning. Our budget, ownership and goals aren’t even settled, it’s kinda like last season redux.

We’re used to seeing a few PCA’s or re-signings by now, but “silence” prevails. IM only recently admitted to being able to talk to anyone, so we can assume he’s been able to talk a bit for some time, but with no progress noticeable/admitted, it’s worrisome. As you wish improvement, we need to improve the average/below average (striker, anyone) while keeping the above average…but is that really possible next year…we don’t know, but the signs aren’t encouraging.

 

The signs are encouraging. IM has probably been told to hold of discussing contracts until the new peoole have agreed a budget for the season. No point signing players when we may be able to offer better money attracting better than this current crop where only a handful are good enough to compete at the upper end of the Championship. PCAs will be released until the season is over. I'd be pissed if a couple of out injured players announced they were off before the season finishes. I would have to ask if they were injured or just had no intention on playing for us again. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, raith1974 said:

we don't need bit part players and players playing out of position. 

Every club in this division will have to have that though, as budgets dont stretch enough to have 20+ starting quality players.

[Derry Alli]

31 minutes ago, TxRover said:

He got it previous would be the point, no? 

What a strange way to look at things.