CALDERON Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What would be worse. Staying full time and staying in the league, or going part time and getting relegated..? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What would be worse. Staying full time and staying in the league, or going part time and getting relegated..? Not sure. The second division is pretty uninspiring. Don't fancy going back there in a hurry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socca_G Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Only if we can find additional investment or additional revenue streams. Both virtually impossible in this economic climate as most individuals and businesses don't have spare cash to throw away with a football club. The easiest option is to cut wages and playing staff. Whether you can stay in the First Division depends entirely on your managers ability to get more out of fewer players of less quality and/or your competitors willingness to do the same. People would be more likely to invest in the club if it was worth their while! There's no reason why a football club can't function in business successfully. The problem we have just now is that the only people that are investing for advertisement and/or hospitality are fans of the club or people connected to RRFC. There is no reason why people would want to invest that have no connection with the club. The club have never adapted the business side of things in years! There is one marketing guy banging his head against the same brick wall John Drysdale was banging his head against! One of the clubs main source of income outside a match day is the Rovers Lotto. I haven't seen many new sponsor boards around the ground and i know for a fact that the hospitality sales are totally down this year. We can only move forward as a team, as a business and as a club is if we have someone willing to invest a fair share of cash into Raith as a business and not as a football team. But with this current situation we can only rely on what we are bringing in right now, and we all know that isn't much and i think Dave Somerville stepping down is a sign that maybe things are going to get very tough! Edited August 17, 2011 by Socca_G 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 People would be more likely to invest in the club if it was worth their while! There's no reason why a football club can't function in business successfully. The problem we have just now is that the only people that are investing for advertisement and/or hospitality are fans of the club or people connected to RRFC. There is no reason why people would want to invest that have no connection with the club. The club have never adapted the business side of things in years! There is one marketing guy banging his head against the same brick wall John Drysdale was banging his head against! But football is a very poor investment - more or less every single investor loses his investment, and the consequences can be dire for the club. Investors want returns for their money, and football clubs are bottomless money pits. In fact, you pretty much have to be an idiot to invest them. Either that, or the whole thing is some sort of vanity project to give you status - yes, I own a football club and can afford to lose five million pounds. There are two big problems as well: 1) Investment isn't sustainable. After the first few hundred thousand with no returns, why put more money in? 2) It creates a dependency culture for the club. If the investment stops, the club can't afford the wages of the players the investor got in. Point 1 is what worries me regarding our current situation. I'm eternally grateful that Hutton and Caira have ensured we still have a club, but we can't expect these two to keep bailing us out. Apart from the fact we're racking up more 'soft loans', these guys don't have unlimited bank balances. I can't blame people for not investing us, or any football club for that matter. You'd be as well taking your investment and lumping it on Wolves to win the Premiership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 People would be more likely to invest in the club if it was worth their while! There's no reason why a football club can't function in business successfully. The problem we have just now is that the only people that are investing for advertisement and/or hospitality are fans of the club or people connected to RRFC. There is no reason why people would want to invest that have no connection with the club. The club have never adapted the business side of things in years! There is one marketing guy banging his head against the same brick wall John Drysdale was banging his head against! One of the clubs main source of income outside a match day is the Rovers Lotto. I haven't seen many new sponsor boards around the ground and i know for a fact that the hospitality sales are totally down this year. We can only move forward as a team, as a business and as a club is if we have someone willing to invest a fair share of cash into Raith as a business and not as a football team. But with this current situation we can only rely on what we are bringing in right now, and we all know that isn't much and i think Dave Somerville stepping down is a sign that maybe things are going to get very tough! Agree with much of what you say. Most of the advertisers around the ground are there to back the club rather than drive customers to their business I suspect. The hospitality thing is hard because when times are tough it's always the luxuries that go first. For a business then a grand or two on hospitality is an unnecessary expense if you're just trying to ride out a recession. For an individual then it's also a luxury too far. The marketing of the club and commercial side has always been poor but I think it has actually improved in the last few years. Certainly my experience dealing with the club has been night and day on the commercial side. So I think we're struggling more because of the economic climate rather than poor management or lack of ability. On wider ownership investment into the club it's a pipe dream. The way forward is a sustainable model that cuts our cloth to what we can afford. Sadly that means cuts on the player side but I'd rather have that than no club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee toddy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It's sad to say without investment, or a major reform of the lower divisions by the SFL, All clubs around our size will eventually go to the wall. People can try to blame the chairmen and directors of the clubs, personaly i beleive its all to do with the whole setup of scottish football, Why does a country the size of scotland need 4 divisions? What would be wrong with 1 of 20 and another of 24? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoversMad Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Wee bit off topic guys I know but I was driving past Rivers training up Randolph last night and I couldn't help notice that there was a "gentleman of coloured description" training with us, couldn't get a good enough look to see who it was and didn't want to get arrested for leaning through a hedge taking photos on my phone in a park (again ) Anyone heard anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 No offence but why not just say there was a black player training with us. The word 'coloured' belongs back in the 70s with Mind Your Language and Jim Davidson. But that aside, not heard anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donny86 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Probably the French trialist right back that got injured against ballingry pre season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoversMad Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 No offence but why not just say there was a black player training with us. The word 'coloured' belongs back in the 70s with Mind Your Language and Jim Davidson. But that aside, not heard anything. Didn't mean offence, and none taken, just I remember reading another thread somewher where somebody said they saw a black player training with their club and all the WUMs were out, just being overly PC I suppose 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoversMad Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 He had a spiky affro if that helps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honeyboy edwards Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 When the ship goes down................we better get ready 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1234 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Wee bit off topic guys I know but I was driving past Rivers training up Randolph last night and I couldn't help notice that there was a "gentleman of coloured description" training with us, couldn't get a good enough look to see who it was and didn't want to get arrested for leaning through a hedge taking photos on my phone in a park (again ) Anyone heard anything? Marvin Andrews is keeping fit training with us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Didn't mean offence, and none taken, just I remember reading another thread somewher where somebody said they saw a black player training with their club and all the WUMs were out, just being overly PC I suppose Given that "black" is a completely non-racist term, i seriously doubt that. It astounds me that so many people get it wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baillieinleeds Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 So i take it, its all doom and gloom up at San Starko. Here we go again. Quinny, get those begging bowls ready 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 It's not just the rovers Scottish football is a poor product that represents bad value for money unless you have a strong bond with your club why would you bother with it. There needs to be serious league reform amenity abolition of the spl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 No in business the Chairman is ultimately responsible just ask Tony Hayward the former Chairman of BP. It wasn't his fault the oil leaked into the Mexican Gulf but it was his responsibility as Chairman to ensure his staff were competant and that the company was run properly. Living within our means does not necessarily mean going back to the lower leagues. As a business we have a very stable core income (from the home support) with very little competitive products (very few people change team or stop going because a good film is on TV) so gauging income should be easy. Increasing commercial income should be a priority and it always has been but controlling costs and cash flow are the 2 key factors needed to survive. Lets not forget that despite knowing we were struggling financially last season (the predicted shortfall was known about in December) we still increased our costs by signing Gary Wales and K McBride. We could afford the wages of neither and we knew it before signing them. In BP case thats whats calling pass the buck and besides BP and RRFC,not comparing like for like. However I do agree with many of your previous points but I do not agree that Sommerville is solely to blame for the poor budgeting/ finacial state of our club .If you attend AGM`s,yes the do happen just not annually you`ll find Sommerville seldom answers any questions fielded on wages,money, budgets.That is taken on by one of the soft loan now share holding directors.Sommerville was also not responsible for setting crowd projection,this was done by some other dude.For me the whole financing/budgeting of the club is the collective responsibility of the board or in the main the investors. I`ve regurgated this incase its of any interest to anyone..from a visit to companies house April last year Debt Level Pre Takeover RRFC Holdings Ltd - creditors at 30/06/05: £60,000 RRFC Ltd - creditors at 30/06/05: £691,159 West City Ltd - creditors at 31/01/05: £646,683 So total pre-takeover (not exact, because of the differences in accounting periods) was £1,397,842 RRFC Holdings Ltd - creditors at 30/06/09: £0 RRFC Ltd - creditors at 30/06/09: £298,043 Starks Park Properties Ltd - creditors at 31/01/09: £627,750 New Raith Rovers Ltd - creditors at 30/06/09: £100,475 So total in the last published accounts was £1,026,268. The financial year 2010, the Cup Revenue reportedly cleared our operating deficit eg. everything bar the Starks Park Properties debt. For a small fee the accounts are available,visit the Companies House website after the cup run. Point 1 is what worries me regarding our current situation. I'm eternally grateful that Hutton and Caira have ensured we still have a club, but we can't expect these two to keep bailing us out. unlimited bank balances.Apart from the fact we're racking up more 'soft loans', these guys don't have You could also say they are/were partly to blame for the financial situ we are in at the moment and to the almost demise of our club as they were on the board when Smith and McGowan were asked to take over which is ultimately the reason were in such a state. Apart from the fact we're racking up more 'soft loans', these guys don't have The previous soft loans were converted into shares at the last AGM.Any new soft loans will have come from there unknown investment this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Fair enough, didn't know about the shares for their previous loans. At least that isn't as bad as I thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 (edited) Losing the Pars games is hugely significant. The revenue generated by the number of Pars fans in the away end, the increased number of fans in the home end, programme sales, catering sales, increased sponsorship and hospitality at a derby is considerable. Multiply it times two and it was a significant part of our income last season. Theres minimal profit on programme sales and to my knowledge the club receive minimal direct income from the catering if anything at all . Edited August 18, 2011 by Rovers_Lad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistle Blower Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 So the chairmans away after a boardroom split, who would have thought it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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