The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Rovers1992/1993]

Grant Murray should stay in charge as it means we'll finish above you this season. Have faith and trust him. Cheers.

Nah honestly don't think we're as bad as to stoop that low..

[baillieinleeds]

Im obsessed with Raith Rovers.

We know, now kindly f**k off.

[RavyDavy]

I always enjoy the 'keyboard warrior' stuff, as if the majority of fans who say we're fucking shite on here wouldn't say that to Turnbull's face. We are fucking shite. The only people hiding are the board and Murray as there is no open channel of communication - so here we all are, mumping and moaning about people mumping and moaning about us mumping and moaning. Boooooo.

A five year plan is up there with the "20 goal a season striker" and "creative midfielder" shouts that always come when things are going wrong. Let's not resort to that. Projections are a waste of time, even more so in the random world of football.

I thought I'd have softened up by now as I recall chuckling a few weeks ago that people would be calling for Murray's head if we lost to Dumbarton, and thinking how silly it'd be. Yet here we are and it doesn't seem silly at all. I wanted him out last season (THREE WINS IN TWENTY) but going into summer I decided to back him and the club, bought a season ticket, etc. But I just don't see any evidence we've improved at all. Indeed we appear to have gone backwards. Somehow.

Talk of organised protest is absolutely pathetic. Yes, we were hopeless last season, and nobody was a stronger critic than I. And this season has been horrible so far - friendlies or not we had some concerning performances, League One Forfar completely matched us at home and we've been dominated by League One Dunfermline in a cup we won last season. It's an awful start. But ultimately we're through in the League Cup, and out of a cup that is mostly a waste of time. No disaster yet. Give it a few games into the league season, have a mini-evaluation after Cowdenbeath at the end of the month, and a fuller one after we play Queen of the South in October. We haven't lost anything yet except a home tie with Falkirk that we're probably all happy to avoid in reality. I'm not saying I don't want Murray out per se, but he's not going on Saturday regardless of result, and probably nor should he really given we didn't sack him at the end of the season - it's not quite a new page, but he will be given a little time this time around.

However if Gary Glen doesn't start on Saturday I for one will chain myself to the Main Stand, and I hope to see others follow.

I would absolutely tell TH to his face that we are utter shit. As a paying customer, I am more than entitled to provide feedback on the product offered, positive or negative. In fact set up that meeting and I happily attend it.

What I expected was a massive improvement on last season. What I have seen in 2 games vs lower league opposition was totally unacceptable, no better or worse than last season. Big change in personnel, same shitty tactics with no idea how to change it to affect a game.

Better to get rid now while the window is still open and there is some budget left - get a new manager (Lennon for me if possible - f**k me, i'd have Dick Campbell before seeing Murray back in that dug out) and get him to address the ridiculous lack of options up front and in the fullback positions.

Why risk letting this carry over into the league? Surely Murray has had enough chances by now?

[RavyDavy]

Season hasn't yet begun but you guys go on and really get behind the team. People behind the scenes are all out trying to encourage more people to attend the games and therefore make money for the club and all you guys can think about is lets protest, boo the players, get the manager out - what is it that you do to encourage new punters, cause that mindset certainly won't. There are some so called fans who really need to have a think about why they 'support' the Rovers

Are you a season ticket holder? Do you think it's reasonable to expect people to stump up the best part of £250 a year to watch the utter dross that we have had to endure since last December? No-one is ecpecting world beating silky samba style football - just a team that actually looks like it knows what it is doing and actually give a f**k.

None of that has been in evidence over the last 6 months of football. It's nothing short of a disgrace. It looks right now that we have been short changed again by this shambles of a BoD.

It's not just about the last 2 games, it's about the last 6 months. Again IT'S ABOUT THE LAST 6 MONTHS in case you aren't picking this up/

The slate is not wiped clean after the way the 2nd half of last season went.

[CowdenConvert]

We know, now kindly f**k off.

You seem a bit upset champ. You need to calm down. You'll give yourself a heart attack. We'll be sorry to see you relegated seeing as we get more points off you than any other team each season.

[Gregor147]

I'll head along on Saturday but know that after 5 mins I'll be regretting it. I just know that as soon as Jason Thomson gets the ball it'll be hoofed up the park regardless if there are any Rovers players up there. I've no confidence in Murrays tactics or his ability to change our style of play during a match.

[Raith Against The Machine]

I'm going to keep this brief because I have very little stomach for negativity.

Last night was abysmal. I cannot stress that enough. I'm sure there are people who weren't at the game last night thinking "It was only 1-0, what's the big deal?" but it was honestly such a depressing performance to witness. It'd take someone with a greater analytical mind than mine to list all of the faults with our side last night, but there are a few things that stood out for me, and which should be reasonably simple to fix.

For one, I don't think McKeown is a terrible player. Unfortunately, he has played terribly in the last two games. I think he and Conroy need to have a sit down in a room together and talk through how they want to work together this coming season. Both of them keep trying to occupy the same space. McKeown picks up the ball and carries it over the half way line until he's closed down by a midfielder; Conroy comes deep to take the ball from him, bringing a marker; McKeown gives him the ball and moves beyond, but only by a matter of yards; Conroy turns to face the right way, with the ball, but he's now 50 yards from goal with two men in front of him and no options but a backwards or a sideways pass. Either Conroy needs to be going down the flank instead of going deep, or McKeown needs to go on the overlap/underlap once he's given the ball to Conroy.

Ross Perry needs to calm the f**k down. He plays the entire game like he's defending a 1-0 lead and it's deep into injury time. Defences, more than any other area of the park, need time to gel. Hopefully with another game or two together Perry, Watson et al can form more of a solid unit and then we can go through it all again once Barr/Hill return.

We badly missed Elliot last night. For all that everyone wants Lewis Vaughan to succeed, he's got no where near the footballing maturity (understandably) to play in that very specific "number 10" role behind Nade. I don't think Elliot is ideal for that role, but he's by far the most effective player in the squad. In fact, I'd go so far to argue that he's the only player in the squad suited to playing behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1. That, for me, is the biggest flaw in the squad that Murray has built. Rather than searching for a penalty box striker to play second fiddle to Nade, we should be looking for a second choice "10", knowing that we can push Elliot up front if need be.

Murray obviously realised that the 4-2-3-1 wasn't working last night, because we hadn't even reached half time before Vaughan was moved out wide and Stewart (as an aside, I keep wanting to call him "Armstrong" for some reason - so if you seem me referring to an Armstrong at any point, I mean Stewart...) went up top alongside Nade. Unfortunately, that gave our players an easy option for the rest of the game. Firing the ball to Big Nade and hoping he'd flick to on to Fast Stewart, and it nearly paid off once or twice, but we shouldn't have been playing that sort of shitty football. We should have been playing the ball through the middle, getting it into Nade's feet. I've never seen a player at this level who turned his man, or men, so easily. He could've been using his close control to release Stewart into space behind the defence, but he didn't get the chance. Scott and Fox were both fixated on pushing the ball out to Conroy and McKeown (see previous paragraph for the results of that tactic) instead of going toe-to-toe with the Pars central midfield. Kevin Moon should solve that particular issue, but we shouldn't collapse so utterly and completely without one central midfielder.

As it turns out, I haven't kept it brief at all. I will stop now though...

[miloman]

What he said !!

Is it the case that money will stop the BoD replacing Murray if it comes to it?? Having to pay up his contract then stru ggling to meet the potential wage of a new man?? Then are they tied to the players the club has because they have no money left to bring a player in?

[Scary Bear]

I always enjoy the 'keyboard warrior' stuff, as if the majority of fans who say we're fucking shite on here wouldn't say that to Turnbull's face. We are fucking shite. The only people hiding are the board and Murray as there is no open channel of communication - so here we all are, mumping and moaning about people mumping and moaning about us mumping and moaning. Boooooo.

A five year plan is up there with the "20 goal a season striker" and "creative midfielder" shouts that always come when things are going wrong. Let's not resort to that. Projections are a waste of time, even more so in the random world of football.

I thought I'd have softened up by now as I recall chuckling a few weeks ago that people would be calling for Murray's head if we lost to Dumbarton, and thinking how silly it'd be. Yet here we are and it doesn't seem silly at all. I wanted him out last season (THREE WINS IN TWENTY) but going into summer I decided to back him and the club, bought a season ticket, etc. But I just don't see any evidence we've improved at all. Indeed we appear to have gone backwards. Somehow.

Talk of organised protest is absolutely pathetic. Yes, we were hopeless last season, and nobody was a stronger critic than I. And this season has been horrible so far - friendlies or not we had some concerning performances, League One Forfar completely matched us at home and we've been dominated by League One Dunfermline in a cup we won last season. It's an awful start. But ultimately we're through in the League Cup, and out of a cup that is mostly a waste of time. No disaster yet. Give it a few games into the league season, have a mini-evaluation after Cowdenbeath at the end of the month, and a fuller one after we play Queen of the South in October. We haven't lost anything yet except a home tie with Falkirk that we're probably all happy to avoid in reality. I'm not saying I don't want Murray out per se, but he's not going on Saturday regardless of result, and probably nor should he really given we didn't sack him at the end of the season - it's not quite a new page, but he will be given a little time this time around.

However if Gary Glen doesn't start on Saturday I for one will chain myself to the Main Stand, and I hope to see others follow.

According to the beeb report from back in the day, John McGynn "impressed the whole board with his plans to take the club forward."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/raith_rovers/6159390.stm

The report doesn't mention what timescale this plan was over, or what the plan entailed, but at least there was one. What's the plan these days? Play crap football and cross our fingers things don't go too pear-shaped?

[renton]

I'm going to keep this brief because I have very little stomach for negativity.

Last night was abysmal. I cannot stress that enough. I'm sure there are people who weren't at the game last night thinking "It was only 1-0, what's the big deal?" but it was honestly such a depressing performance to witness. It'd take someone with a greater analytical mind than mine to list all of the faults with our side last night, but there are a few things that stood out for me, and which should be reasonably simple to fix.

For one, I don't think McKeown is a terrible player. Unfortunately, he has played terribly in the last two games. I think he and Conroy need to have a sit down in a room together and talk through how they want to work together this coming season. Both of them keep trying to occupy the same space. McKeown picks up the ball and carries it over the half way line until he's closed down by a midfielder; Conroy comes deep to take the ball from him, bringing a marker; McKeown gives him the ball and moves beyond, but only by a matter of yards; Conroy turns to face the right way, with the ball, but he's now 50 yards from goal with two men in front of him and no options but a backwards or a sideways pass. Either Conroy needs to be going down the flank instead of going deep, or McKeown needs to go on the overlap/underlap once he's given the ball to Conroy.

Ross Perry needs to calm the f**k down. He plays the entire game like he's defending a 1-0 lead and it's deep into injury time. Defences, more than any other area of the park, need time to gel. Hopefully with another game or two together Perry, Watson et al can form more of a solid unit and then we can go through it all again once Barr/Hill return.

We badly missed Elliot last night. For all that everyone wants Lewis Vaughan to succeed, he's got no where near the footballing maturity (understandably) to play in that very specific "number 10" role behind Nade. I don't think Elliot is ideal for that role, but he's by far the most effective player in the squad. In fact, I'd go so far to argue that he's the only player in the squad suited to playing behind the striker in a 4-2-3-1. That, for me, is the biggest flaw in the squad that Murray has built. Rather than searching for a penalty box striker to play second fiddle to Nade, we should be looking for a second choice "10", knowing that we can push Elliot up front if need be.

Murray obviously realised that the 4-2-3-1 wasn't working last night, because we hadn't even reached half time before Vaughan was moved out wide and Stewart (as an aside, I keep wanting to call him "Armstrong" for some reason - so if you seem me referring to an Armstrong at any point, I mean Stewart...) went up top alongside Nade. Unfortunately, that gave our players an easy option for the rest of the game. Firing the ball to Big Nade and hoping he'd flick to on to Fast Stewart, and it nearly paid off once or twice, but we shouldn't have been playing that sort of shitty football. We should have been playing the ball through the middle, getting it into Nade's feet. I've never seen a player at this level who turned his man, or men, so easily. He could've been using his close control to release Stewart into space behind the defence, but he didn't get the chance. Scott and Fox were both fixated on pushing the ball out to Conroy and McKeown (see previous paragraph for the results of that tactic) instead of going toe-to-toe with the Pars central midfield. Kevin Moon should solve that particular issue, but we shouldn't collapse so utterly and completely without one central midfielder.

As it turns out, I haven't kept it brief at all. I will stop now though...

You wonder if with the extra central midfielder and the extra centre backs - when fit - that he'll go 3-5-2: Stops the middle getting overun, allows him to push Elliot further up and makes use of the surplus of centre backs. Be nice, if and when we get these guys fit.

[lellywong]

Attending the games all the way from Berkshire must be a helluva trek every week, good for you. Tangible evidence? Its a footie game not CSI

[Raith Against The Machine]

You wonder if with the extra central midfielder and the extra centre backs - when fit - that he'll go 3-5-2: Stops the middle getting overun, allows him to push Elliot further up and makes use of the surplus of centre backs. Be nice, if and when we get these guys fit.

I absolutely think he will, yeah. I was surprised that we didn't see a form of that strategy in the friendlies against St Johnstone, York or Caley Thistle. I can only assume Murray didn't see the benefit in trying it out with so many of the key players for the success of that formation sitting out.

Before a ball was kicked, I thought we'd be going into the season with two strategies. The 4-2-3-1 for games which we expect to dominate, and the 3-5-2 for games we don't.

It may be that this season becomes a mirror image of last year's. The injury crisis and the constantly changing line-up hits at the beginning, but by Christmas the team has settled down and are used to the two systems. At this point that seems wildly optimistic, but strangers things have happened.

I didn't give my opinion on the "Murray Must Go" campaign in my last post - I haven't climbed aboard that particular bandwagon yet, but I've got to say that I'm jogging alongside. If it was me, I wouldn't be making any decisions until October. By the first of October we'll have played Dumbarton, Alloa, Cowdenbeath, Livingston and Falkirk along with Hearts, Hibs, Dundee and Rangers. I think that's a more than reasonable sample size on which to judge the manager. I don't think the second half of last season should have any bearing on this. Different players, different opposition. Of course it's still a relevant factor, without that horrible run he wouldn't be under any pressure, but I don't think the "three wins in twenty" should be used as a stick to beat him with at this point in time. We need to know what he can do now with this squad, not what he has done in the past with another.

I know that's not the popular opinion, and believe me when I say that I understand entirely why not.

[Ro Sham Bo]

Season hasn't yet begun but you guys go on and really get behind the team. People behind the scenes are all out trying to encourage more people to attend the games and therefore make money for the club and all you guys can think about is lets protest, boo the players, get the manager out - what is it that you do to encourage new punters, cause that mindset certainly won't. There are some so called fans who really need to have a think about why they 'support' the Rovers

The only way to get fans in is to put a team out on the pitch that makes people want to come and see us. After last night there are season ticket holders saying they won't be attending because of the way things are going. These 'people behind the scenes' can do what they want but if the paying customer is subjected to 90 minutes of lazy long balls up to Nade's head and general ineptitude and disorganisation then they won't be rushing back.

The vast majority of, if not all, Rovers fans will be right behind the team on Saturday but if the team don't produce the goods they'll have to put up with some booing at half time and full time.

[RavyDavy]

You wonder if with the extra central midfielder and the extra centre backs - when fit - that he'll go 3-5-2: Stops the middle getting overun, allows him to push Elliot further up and makes use of the surplus of centre backs. Be nice, if and when we get these guys fit.

So why not go with that last night?

Cuthbert

Ellis Watson Perry

Thomson Callachan Scott Fox Conroy

Stewart Nade

McKeown and Vaughan on the bench giving options to change it or bring on like for like?

We've not got a lot of pace and he plays 4-4-1-1!!! You need alot of pace, especially midfield, to play that.

It becomes easier on Saturday to play like that because you have Elliot, Anderson and maybe Moon back, gives you an opportunity to pick a team with options on the bench. If Moon then he should be straight in.

What will likely happen is Elliot will come in for Vaughan and we'll stick with the same shite formation and tactics. Anderson, Vaughan and Moon (if fit) will warm the bench until it is too late.

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

It looks right now that we have been short changed again by this shambles of a BoD.

You wouldn't have the Rovers to support if it wasn't for the "shambles of a BoD."

How exactly have we been short changed anyway?

[Wardy]

After overseeing the last two competitive fixtures, it was plain to see that the team don't go all out and try to control a game. Always seems like the team are going through the motions and just sort of getting their way through a game, rather than just playing naturally (pass..move into space, want the ball back etc)

I do think Murray has built up quite a good team on paper and it could be that the team just needs to gel (Remember Hill and Barr haven't even played a bloody game yet) plus we didn't have our strongest 11 in any of our friendlies either. Perry was a signing that had to be made because we couldn't rely on playing young David Bates or even Laurie Ellis in competitive fixtures. That's no disrespect to those two mentioned though.

I mostly agree with RATM in that I don't think anyone would have crumbled much if we were told we would be put out the Challenge cup in the first round and managed to get through the League Cup tie (Dundee away is a shite draw and we should just focus on the league, we'll get enough money this season anyway) then everyone would be relatively content. Now I know people will be saying "ah but it's how we played that's the problem eh? Ken what a mean bud?" Which is a valid point, because we didn't set the heather alight, far from it. But if you look at the facts it's a win (ok AET) but it still goes down as a win, and a 1-0 defeat. Fact. We can sit and pick at it all we want, but it's not really going to change anything is it?

If the team aren't performing in the league after four or five league games then questions should be asked, but calling time up on Murray after two competitive games is just plain stupid. It must be hard trying to build a squad and then 4 or 5 can't even play in the friendlies let alone competitive fixtures. I'm hoping that once all the players are fit and are gelled that we can get some more positive results on a consistent basis. A 3-5-2 would suit me fine for the season ahead. The system was used effectively at the World Cup against 4-4-2 systems and also 4-2-3-1 systems as well.

Cuthbert

Hill

Watson

Perry

Thomson (rwb)

McKeown (lwb)

Barr

Scott

Moon

Nade

Elliot

A bench of Conroy, Anderson, Fox, Stewart, Vaughan, Callachan and McGurn. An experienced 18, there are no doubts about it.

Obviously Conroy and Anderson in particular won't be numbing their arses on the bench. Murray had a lot of thinking to do. I want the team to do well, but unfortunately he is running out of time. His position became completely untenable last season, then we won the bloody cup, so he was never going to be sacked.

Last season is over now though, a clean slate. The slate has been slightly tinged in the last two games. Until it is completely dirtied, will his position become at risk again.

I just hope we get a win on Saturday, or at least play quite well.

[Rovers_Lad]

You wouldn't have the Rovers to support if it wasn't for the "shambles of a BoD."

How exactly have we been short changed anyway?

some of the board were in place that got us into the initial mess

they are however doing a good job now

[Ro Sham Bo]

A matter of urgency for Murray should be finding an alternative to McKeown at left back. The guy is completely out of his depth. He looks like a hobo who has mistakenly stumbled his way onto a football pitch.

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

some of the board were in place that got us into the initial mess

they are however doing a good job now

Yeah, no doubt that there have been mistakes made but they have is in as good shape as we've been in a long time.

Murray's cup runs a substantial contributor to that too, strangely enough.

[Enigma]

To be honest I'd be happy enough with Lennon when Murray goes. What's Paquito up to these days?