The Falkirk FC Thread

[Harry Kinnear]

I’ve got my thoughts on how my monthly payment to the FSS should be spent but I’ll head along to the meeting on 1st September and hear what’s said before throwing my tuppence in.

[Kevin James Left Knee]

25 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Okay so can you please fill me in on the facts as they stand. Not heresay and not assumption just simply the facts. 

What reason have the bod including an fss rep given the FSS for not issuing more shares? 

If you mean a special resolution  to issue more shares then they have not discussed this with the FSS Committee. If you mean why are they refusing to sell more shares from those available now, they have not given a specific reason. Presumably it is to get more money from elsewhere as they assume all FSS money will come to them anyway. As far as I know there is no specific buyer for the shares at the moment.

What are the options been put forward by the FSS for future payment terms including the one mentioned by Kevin James left knee above. 

There are 3 options - 1. the money is given to the club with no restrictions and with nothing in return,  2. the money is given to the club but FSS ask the money to be spent in certain areas eg youth development. However nr 2. is in practice the same as nr 1. as the club can just move money around within budget headings to do as they want. 

3. My proposal is that the club is given the money as a soft zero rate loan but that loan is NOT repaid unless there is a future share issue. If there is a share issue within a certain time limit (say 3 years) then the loan amount is converted into shares in the name of FSS. That means that FSS in such a situation can "future proof" their donations and if there are more shares issued at least gain a number of shares to try to keep to the magic number of 25% plus 1 share (It may not do that depending on the figures but it is better than gaining no shares at all.

At the moment the club told me last week it would oppose 3. because it is "not in the best interests of the club". They did not explain why that would be - personally i think the club benefits from that in the same way as any other financial input. I have checked with the club secretary and he told me it would have no financial affects on the club if that was the final version. I cannot see why the Board would oppose this idea.

If fss members decide that none of these options are viable can we not simply just withhold the cash injection which surely gives the FSS a strong amount of leverage.

The club and FSS signed a contract about 2 months ago that agreed that all monies raise from FSS would go to the club although that agreement did not cover the form those payments would take. In return the club recognised FSS as the official supporters organisation and would give two seats on the Board to FSS elected members. With hindsight FSS should have probably waited longer to sign that agreement and given it more thought but that is my fault as much as anyone else's.

 

 

[Forever_Blue_]

52 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

You really need to drop this line of demeaning chat. What you thought, and what is happening are two different things. FSS has already been refused a purchase of more shares which keeps them unable to realistically “keep the Wolf from the door”. Your “something to moan about” comment is derisory in the extreme.

Whether you like it or not, this is a critical situation. You trying to demean it, and those concerned by it is an extremely foolish thing to do.

Donate money for zero influence…….that gets you an FF. Subscribe to buy into a collective protection for the club….that gets you an FSS.

Take your pick.

In what way is it critical? It looks like the FSS is doing OK and holding a meeting to discuss the next steps. Don't understand your panic? And I almost do agree with the previous poster that it's just another thing to moan about rather than focusing on the positives from the latest FSS email. 

I've said this before and I'll say it again, FSS has around 720 members. Based on the home attendance this weekend they barely even represent a quarter of the attending fan base. I'd personally like to see the FSS lower the £10 minimum subscription and get as many fans involved and contributing as they can. Every little helps. 

[Shodwall cat]

4 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

 

Thanks for clearing up the facts  before the meeting.

It's a bit of a concern that the FSS would appear to have given up any leverage it has by signing an agreement that means it has to keep handing over the cash to the club no matter the circumstances.  This is exacerbated by the FSS only having one bod rep at present. 

Who is currently on the FSS board?

[Kevin James Left Knee]

1 minute ago, Shodwall cat said:

 

Who is currently on the FSS board?

The elected members of the FSS are:  Alan MacFarlane, Anna O’Donnell,  Char Honey, Jim Millar, John Fleming, Kev Beattie, Scott Steel, Stuart Brown, Douglas Peters and Stuart Graudus (chair).

 

 

[Zbairn]

25 minutes ago, Forever_Blue_ said:

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again, FSS has around 720 members. Based on the home attendance this weekend they barely even represent a quarter of the attending fan base. 

To calculate and rationalise FSS numbers like this is a bit disingenuous. 

There are a huge number of factors involved in our average attendance. How many are school kids ? How many are families attending and the parents pay the FSS ?  How many find the £10 a month just a bridge too far in this economic climate ? How many are unemployed ? How many are in hospitality who perhaps have only come along as a guest ? ..... so many reasons for not being a member of FSS yet still attending a match. 

Beside where I sit, a lady regularly attends with 3 kids ....thats potentially 4 FFS members but I doubt that she will cough up £40/month.  There are also a few old guys around me who probably have not got a clue what the FSS is. 

We could also hypothesise that there are thousands of Falkirk fans out there who do not attend matches. Consider semi-finals and finals. If they attended matches the club would certainly be much better off. That would be a significant cash generator for the club. What can be done to get the footfall increased? 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a lot more in the FFS (I wish there was), but 720 is a fantastic achievement and one that benefits the club substantially in terms of the cash it gives every month.

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

What I don't agree with, is trying to rationalise the FSS uptake with regular attendance. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Zbairn

[Kevin James Left Knee]

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

1 minute ago, Zbairn said:

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

This would most probably reduce the FSS monthly income substantially as members might well move to £5 a month and the new members joining not make up for that. No one can prove that one way or another but it is my strong feeling it would be retrograde.

[Zbairn]

2 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

This would most probably reduce the FSS monthly income substantially as members might well move to £5 a month and the new members joining not make up for that. No one can prove that one way or another but it is my strong feeling it would be retrograde.

Take your point.... £5 for kids / Under 18's ? 

[Shodwall cat]

6 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

This would most probably reduce the FSS monthly income substantially as members might well move to £5 a month and the new members joining not make up for that. No one can prove that one way or another but it is my strong feeling it would be retrograde.

You state that you were told that the club would not accept your idea . By the club I presume you mean the bod on which fss has two reps or at least should have two reps. I presume that decision was carried out after a vote of the bod members?  It also seems worrying to me that the FSS rep isn't able to give the group he represents a reason for this decision.

[Kevin James Left Knee]

5 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

You state that you were told that the club would not accept your idea . By the club I presume you mean the bod on which fss has two reps or at least should have two reps. I presume that decision was carried out after a vote of the bod members?  It also seems worrying to me that the FSS rep isn't able to give the group he represents a reason for this decision.

No I had a one to one meeting with a key member of the Board. He told me he would oppose my idea as it "was not in the interest of the club". He did not say why it was not in the best interest of the club. 

[Shodwall cat]

2 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

No I had a one to one meeting with a key member of the Board. He told me he would oppose my idea as it "was not in the interest of the club". He did not say why it was not in the best interest of the club. 

How many board members are there currently?

[Kevin James Left Knee]

3 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

How many board members are there currently?

5 (Actually only 4 as one of the FSS seats is empty)

Edited August 7, 2023 by Kevin James Left Knee

[Guest]

Just now, Kevin James Left Knee said:

5

4?

[Kevin James Left Knee]

Just now, Duncan Freemason said:

4?

See above - you are right. one seat is to be filled. FSS is (presumably) currently discussing the timetable for that election.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

 

The FSS is set up to give money to the club but to buy shares and then becoming an effective funding model till more shares are issued. If there was nothing on that document about the club withholding any available shares then I’d say their decision to do so is a material change in circumstance upon which that agreement was made. 

We always expect the FSS money to go to the club in some shape or form but what you say doesn’t appear to clarify that money just gets handed over to the club regardless. 

By all respects the FSS could pay to be the main shirt sponsor next season out of the money it gifts to the club(when all shares are gone) however that would prevent the club from being able to sell that elsewhere. I understand that might be their argument regarding the shares but buying available shares is the cornerstone of any fan ownership model. It’s how FSS was sold to us and the government. 
 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Van_damage

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Forever_Blue_ said:

In what way is it critical? It looks like the FSS is doing OK and holding a meeting to discuss the next steps. Don't understand your panic? And I almost do agree with the previous poster that it's just another thing to moan about rather than focusing on the positives from the latest FSS email. 

I've said this before and I'll say it again, FSS has around 720 members. Based on the home attendance this weekend they barely even represent a quarter of the attending fan base. I'd personally like to see the FSS lower the £10 minimum subscription and get as many fans involved and contributing as they can. Every little helps. 

FSS are being allowed to purchase shares to below the point where the organisation would have a meaningful say. That to me is a deliberate act.

All subscriptions thereafter are expected to go to the club to use as they please, but with nothing in return. They will however sell shares E”sewhere provided its not FSS.

Apparently, the FSS Committee have agreed for that to happen without any consultation with FSS members….for me, that’s unacceptable.

Lower the subscription cost? What’s the point? There will be no shares in return. You’d be as well just giving the money to FF. No need to join.

[Proudtobeabairn]

Kjartan Finbogasson 

[Shodwall cat]

10 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

See above - you are right. one seat is to be filled. FSS is (presumably) currently discussing the timetable for that election.

Imperative then that this election is carried out as quickly as possible as as it stands the clubs biggest shareholder is under represented.  I would suggest that any proposals are held back until the FSS has two reps . Bit of a concern that the person who will then have the casting vote is someone who represents noone at all 

[Shodwall cat]

Ian Culverhouse.

[grumpyoldman]

43 minutes ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

No I had a one to one meeting with a key member of the Board. He told me he would oppose my idea as it "was not in the interest of the club". He did not say why it was not in the best interest of the club. 

Not in the interests of the club or not in the interests of the patrons who would see their shareholding diluted unless they were prepared to pony up the equivalent of FFS