The Falkirk FC Thread

[Bairn in Exile]

My apologies for breaking into the debate but just thought that I would post another Story of The Matchday video.

After viewing, please let the debate continue.

 

[Jimmy1876]

2 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

If this is the case. I’d rather wait and see the reasoning when / if it is explained. For example could it be 30k of new money via the PG or another investor is seen as new money and un budgeted for as opposed to the ongoing money from the FSS which is already built into the clubs budget? There may also be another mechanism being discussed to help the FSS get to 25% via some form of share transfer as some on here talked about earlier? If the PG or a third party are indeed buying up the remaining 1% or so of shares it will still leave the FSS in a very strong position as the clubs largest shareholder anyway and I’m sure the will is there to get the society that final push to the 25% +1 mark. Let’s just wait and see what both the FSS and club board come out with. 

Again, I admire your positivity here but the action in itself regardless of what the justification is feels like a breach of trust. These shares were held and promised to allow FSS to get 25%+1. Blocking this for whatever reason and leaving FSS to have to find their own way to that shareholding is a massive disconnect from what I have felt we have been told a number of times. New investment would be great, from the Patrons who have supported the club to new potential investors. But taking those shares out of the hands of FSS is absolutely fundamentally wrong in my opinion. If the club is in need of new investment then issue new shares and have all three legs of the stool invest to maintain shareholding. 

Also this idea of it being seen as new investment has again simply assumed that the FSS fan base will be happy to hand over money for nothing in return when there is still available shareholding. I don't remember there being a consultation on that? The FSS money is being taken for granted.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jimmy1876 said:

Again, I admire your positivity here but the action in itself regardless of what the justification is feels like a breach of trust. These shares were held and promised to allow FSS to get 25%+1. Blocking this for whatever reason and leaving FSS to have to find their own way to that shareholding is a massive disconnect from what I have felt we have been told a number of times. New investment would be great, from the Patrons who have supported the club to new potential investors. But taking those shares out of the hands of FSS is absolutely fundamentally wrong in my opinion. If the club is in need of new investment then issue new shares and have all three legs of the stool invest to maintain shareholding. 

Also this idea of it being seen as new investment has again simply assumed that the FSS fan base will be happy to hand over money for nothing in return when there is still available shareholding. I don't remember there being a consultation on that? The FSS money is being taken for granted.

Couldn’t have said l it better than how you’ve summed it up in your last couple of posts Jimmy. 

[LatapyBairn.]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

Again, I admire your positivity here but the action in itself regardless of what the justification is feels like a breach of trust. These shares were held and promised to allow FSS to get 25%+1. Blocking this for whatever reason and leaving FSS to have to find their own way to that shareholding is a massive disconnect from what I have felt we have been told a number of times. New investment would be great, from the Patrons who have supported the club to new potential investors. But taking those shares out of the hands of FSS is absolutely fundamentally wrong in my opinion. If the club is in need of new investment then issue new shares and have all three legs of the stool invest to maintain shareholding. 

Also this idea of it being seen as new investment has again simply assumed that the FSS fan base will be happy to hand over money for nothing in return when there is still available shareholding. I don't remember there being a consultation on that? The FSS money is being taken for granted.

Might just be me be I did kinda presume when I singed up I was handing my money over for nothing. Framing it as an ongoing donation I find in no way offensive, all I really needed to know is that I was helping the club. In that respect I’m still happy that I am unless I hear differently. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[Disco Duck]

11 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Might just be me be I did kinda presume when I singed up I was handing my money over for nothing, all I really needed to know is that I was helping the club. In that respect I’m still happy that I am unless I hear differently. 

In an odd way, for me there’s a difference between handing over your money for nothing, and handing it over for shares worth nothing.  I was in the latter camp.

If shares are provided it gives both a degree of control and say, as well as a (largely worthless) investment.  Otherwise it’s just taking the piss.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Disco Duck

[Shodwall cat]

Can someone from the FSS perhaps  Kevin James left knee confirm that the club had promised the FSS the extra one percent of shares that they are now holding back. 

[Bairn in Exile]

20 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Might just be me be I did kinda presume when I singed up I was handing my money over for nothing. Framing it as an ongoing donation I find in no way offensive, all I really needed to know is that I was helping the club. In that respect I’m still happy that I am unless I hear differently. 

 

9 minutes ago, Disco Duck said:

In an odd way, for me there’s a difference between handing over your money for nothing, and handing it over for shares worth nothing.  I was in the latter camp.

If shares are provided it gives both a degree of control and say, as well as a (largely worthless) investment.  Otherwise it’s just taking the piss.

I think that most FSS subscribers are somewhere in the middle of these 2 views. Help FSS get sufficient shares to give us some sort of control in the club so that we never have to worry about another Campbell the Coffee Man type again and thereafter our donation is just that, a donation to help the club in anyway the money can. It would be great if it could be earmarked for the academy, mind you.

[NavyBlueArmy1876]

Jamie Swinney said setting up under full u10s, u12s etc teams to give us a full academy set-up would cost around £100k a season. Given FSS currently raises around £102k a year funding something like that would be perfect 

[LatapyBairn.]

1 hour ago, Van_damage said:

Just heard that the Patrons group are being asked to hoover up the remaining shares. 

This isn’t an FSS vs Patrons thing but about the principle of denying one group to buy shares with the money they have in the bank and expect them to donate money anyway, whilst the other group can buy shares whenever they like.

I would like to hope the Patrons would rather the shares go to the FSS and if wanting to give the club a cash boost, do so anyway as the shares won’t matter a jot to them but can’t be vital for the FSS getting to the shareholding it sought out. 

As I said, the simple solution is to issue new shares to allow X amount more patrons to get to the 25% and shares to let FSS retain 25%. 

I don’t think this is true, it’s certainly misrepresentative. An email went out to the group last week from a non board member who is a patron with a proposal to raise funds that could then possibly be ring fenced to help boost the playing budget. There was no official contact from the club , the guys on the BOD probably don’t even know about it as they weren’t included in the email and I’m not sure the proposal even got off the ground in the first place for them to be informed. It was definitely before the FSS released they’re statement anyway and there was certainly no chat along the lines of “hoovering up shares”

Edited August 8, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[LatapyBairn.]

22 minutes ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said:

Jamie Swinney said setting up under full u10s, u12s etc teams to give us a full academy set-up would cost around £100k a season. Given FSS currently raises around £102k a year funding something like that would be perfect 

Like this idea 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

2 hours ago, FFC 1876 said:

Having listened to the last Falkirk FC podcast with Jamie Swinney it really does seem like what we've got just now is going to be our lot. If MacIver or Spencer get injured McGlynn's one way of playing is completely fucked, which is very worrying.

He also said we've decided to only take part in the reserve cup this year and not the reserve league so some of our youngsters will go out on loan again this season.

 

Goalkeeper
Nicky Hogarth
Sam Long - On loan from Lincoln City
Owen Hayward (A)

Defender
Tom Lang
Coll Donaldson
Liam Henderson
Sean Mackie
Brad Mckay
Leon Mccann
Logan Sinclair (A)

Midfielder
Brad Spencer
Stephen McGinn
Finn Yeats
Ola Lawal
Aidan Nesbitt
Gary Oliver
Callumn Morrison
Calvin Miller
Alfredo Agyeman
Pearse Carroll (A)
Scott Honeyman (A)
Rhys Walker (A)

Striker
Jordan Allan
Ross MacIver

Am guessing Agyeman could fill in up front if MacIver is injured. Or Oliver. 

[Jimmy1876]

47 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Might just be me be I did kinda presume when I singed up I was handing my money over for nothing. Framing it as an ongoing donation I find in no way offensive, all I really needed to know is that I was helping the club. In that respect I’m still happy that I am unless I hear differently. 

That's fair enough if you have thought that and great you are happy with that. However this was never confirmed. In fact the idea of the shares being bought up was never really supposed to happen for years. Because of the government money this has happened faster so now a decision needs to be made about next steps which there will be a consultation about. If it ends up donated with suggestions of how to use it then great! 

This however is not at all the issue. The issue is that the board and FSS have constantly advertised fan ownership as a means of preventing bad investors coming in on the basis of building up shareholding. Now we have very nearly reached the point where one of the fans groups can actually get to this point, and it's been blocked? In a complete contradiction to everything that's been said before. This has absolutely nothing at all to do with what will or should happen once all shares are purchased as this would have happened anyway. The point here is those shares which the board said were on hold for FSS in the podcast last October, in the meetings last summer that they begged fans to put money in for to save the club have been taken away at the last hurdle. Complete and utter break of trust and I simply feel shocked, confused and dismayed about it. I will wait to understand the role the FSS committee has had whether they agreed already or have had no choice and that will likely make my decision about whether I continue my membership. Again not because I am unhappy with a donation scheme (which I'd be fine with) but because I'm unhappy about how this has come about. I now cannot know if I trust the board to for example sell future shares to FSS if they become available to maintain percentage shareholding or trust the FSS committee to fight on behalf of the fans interests. In one fell swoop I feel that email has undermined everything I thought FSS was standing for.

 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

Is it suspicious that the board have fucked over FSS just after they've taken out this loan of 350K through the Fan Bank?

 

[LatapyBairn.]

5 minutes ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

Is it suspicious that the board have fucked over FSS just after they've taken out this loan of 350K through the Fan Bank?

 

I doubt the reasoning is anything particularly sinister , bear in mind the club board is made up of FSS reps and members. 

[Springfield]

Would like to see statements released from the BOD & FSS, independently.
As a member of the the FSS, I’d like to hear the truth on what exactly is going on. It’s obvious that some of the posts are concerning to say the least. 

[FalkirkBairn2021]

This is utterly scandalous by the way, but easily solvable. 

As an earlier poster said, FSS should immediately stop all contributions to the club until this decision is reversed. 

Any FSS rep on the board must resign if this decision is persisted with. This is a very deliberate power move from someone who's watched Brian Cox in Succession too many times. It's not an accident and there literally is no justification for it if you understand how companies work. 

I completely understand why FSS contributors are utterly fuming.

 

[latapythelegend]

If my contribution doesn't go to shares then I'm out. I didn't sign up to a donation scheme and have my own small amount of shares that gets me into the AGM. That will be enough for me.

 

I imagine many others will feel the same.

[Springfield]

1 minute ago, latapythelegend said:

If my contribution doesn't go to shares then I'm out.

Tip of an Iceberg 

[Bairnardo]

I'm happy for my contribution to go in as a donation/repayment of gov loan ONCE a controlling number of shares has been reached. As others have said, I don't expect shares to keep on being issued. But I most certainly DO NOT expect FSS to be deliberately held out from buying shares, specifically to prevent us reaching a level where we carry the clout that it was quite literally set up to obtain. FSS is effectively a safeguarding mechanism and its worth basically f**k all without that. 

Holding back funds till this gets resolved would IMO be the correct way to go. As it stands, there isn't any point in carrying on if the shareholding can't be increased beyond our current point of "just a fraction short of adequate"

[Blame Me]

1 hour ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said:

Jamie Swinney said setting up under full u10s, u12s etc teams to give us a full academy set-up would cost around £100k a season. Given FSS currently raises around £102k a year funding something like that would be perfect 

That involves growing the FSS four-fold or something like that as the money you mention is going towards filling the £400K deficit before you even start funding the academy further.