The Falkirk FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, AL-FFC said:

Its obviously NOT as Motherwell and Rangers have both been asked to explain their testing regime.

Yes, they've been asked to explain why they went into a match where one club hadn't returned results from the tests yet.

A clear breach of the protocol in place.

[AL-FFC]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Yes, they've been asked to explain why they went into a match where one club hadn't returned results from the tests yet.

A clear breach of the protocol in place.

So you've just gave an example of how it doesnt work then ?
 

You cant say the testing regime works when in this case its failed.  So in theory it works but the reality is it doesnt.  Its going to be a long season.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, AL-FFC said:

So you've just gave an example of how it doesnt work then ?
 

You cant say the testing regime works when in this case its failed.  So in theory it works but the reality is it doesnt.  Its going to be a long season.

I've stated many, many, times here this morning that it on the back of the clubs and players to follow the guidelines. I've not argued against that.

All im saying is it should be almost impossible for the league to have shut down for 14 days, as claimed earlier, as the guidelines in place should prevent the virus spreading beyond one player.

If clubs don't follow guidelines then theres nothing anyone can do, which is why Rangers should face hefty punishment for doing so, and hopefully that would dissuade others from being so reckless.

[AL-FFC]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

I've stated many, many, times here this morning that it on the back of the clubs and players to follow the guidelines. I've not argued against that.

All im saying is it should be almost impossible for the league to have shut down for 14 days, as claimed earlier, as the guidelines in place should prevent the virus spreading beyond one player.

If clubs don't follow guidelines then theres nothing anyone can do, which is why Rangers should face hefty punishment for doing so, and hopefully that would dissuade others from being so reckless.

My own take on it is they wont shut down football for 14 days if an outbreak happens they will shut it down full stop.  Examples of that being the Sitel outbreak in the call centre (all staff working from home and deep clean to the call centre).  The localised one where they extended the lockdown to 13 postcodes in the D&G area .

If it cant be resumed safely it wont happen no matter whats put in place

[gav-ffc]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

After matches they've to act as if they're self isolating. They've to stay in the house with whoever is "in their bubble". Away from the stadium they've to follow the same protocols as everyone else in terms of shielding. That is how its working. Players will face fines, and/or bans, from the SPFL if they fail to follow guidelines.

During the week they are tested, at least, twice, and are kept as isolated as possible during training.

Clubs have been training for a month, and playing multiple matches against different clubs, and not one single player has been confirmed as positive yet.

If everyone continues to follow protocol, then there's almost no chance you reach the stage of having to shut the league down for 14 days. The closest was an Aberdeen player, who got a false positive but was instantly isolated until he was tested again a few days later, and staff at St Mirren, who don't even work with the players. 

I'll say it again. It would take a massive breach of protocol for a club to have the virus spread through their playing squad. Youd have to have someone away from the club interacting with someone who has the virus but doesn't know, they would then have to catch the virus and have no symptoms, get through a test without it flagging up, come into sustained close contact with a fellow players (everything they share at training is sterilised continuously). These players would then have to get through another test without it flagging up, and then come into close contact with players at a different club. Youd then have, potentially, 36 players who shared a pitch self isolating for 24hrs then getting tested again before they even return to training. By then those infected would have had to have got through 3 tests, and a week, with no idea they had the virus, for it to be a problem.

It just shouldn't happen unless someone fucks up.

Seen a few premiership players at gatherings at houses over the last weekend when the weather was nice.

 

[AGPar]

Sad, sad news about David Hagen. Terrible. Really grew to like him as a player. Absolutely crucial role in the 97 Scottish Cup run and, along with the likes of Crabbe, Keith, Moss, part of a core of very decent attacking threats in the late 90s under Totten. On his day, could beat a man no problem and knew where the goals were. The kind of player we've been crying out for for far too long. 

[falkirkthebigclub]

1 minute ago, AGPar said:

Sad, sad news about David Hagen. Terrible. Really grew to like him as a player. Absolutely crucial role in the 97 Scottish Cup run and, along with the likes of Crabbe, Keith, Moss, part of a core of very decent attacking threats in the late 90s under Totten. On his day, could beat a man no problem and knew where the goals were. The kind of player we've been crying out for for far too long. 

Far from the greatest Bairns side we've seen but, my god, we had a real attitude about us and weren't afraid to take on anyone. Thanks for some truly great times, Davie. 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

38 minutes ago, AGPar said:

Sad, sad news about David Hagen. Terrible. Really grew to like him as a player. Absolutely crucial role in the 97 Scottish Cup run and, along with the likes of Crabbe, Keith, Moss, part of a core of very decent attacking threats in the late 90s under Totten. On his day, could beat a man no problem and knew where the goals were. The kind of player we've been crying out for for far too long. 

And it cared to all those lads to play for us. They were all winners and 110% commitment was given in every game.

[Guest]

Of course, which is why they're being tested so regularly.
After St Mirrens "outbreak" of one non-playing staff coach testing positive, St Mirren, Hamilton and Hibernian have all done extra tests. Thats how strict clubs are being about trying to catch and isolate infections.

Regular testing is not 100% going to make it 100% safe is the point I am making

[Swordfishtrombone]

David Hagen scoring the winner in a great day at Brockville.

[Marshmallo]

12 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

Regular testing is not 100% going to make it 100% safe is the point I am making

 

This is it in a nutshell - risk can be reduced but not eliminated.

[RandomGuy.]

56 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

Regular testing is not 100% going to make it 100% safe is the point I am making

 

I've been saying the chance of an entire club, or league, being forced into lockdown for 14 days isn't going to happen due to testing and protocols in place, with the caveat it relies on people not being reckless.

Nothing is 100% safe, but the chances of the virus spreading through an entire squad is minimal.

[Bairn in Exile]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

Testing will likely be happening twice before every match. 

If anyone flags as positive, then another round of testing is done. Thats how its been working for top flight clubs. Of course its not perfect, but if clubs continue to use the right procedures (again, looking at Saints who are using two buses and a minibus to get to away games), then the chances of an entire squad going down and needing to isolate for 14 days is incredibly slim. It would take a massive breach of procedure, or multiple batches of false negative tests/flawed tests, to bring up this "worst case scenario".

How it works for lower league clubs, especially with part time players, is a whole different matter. Let's just hope by October its completely under control in this country.

Just like your typical away support then?

[Guest]

I've been saying the chance of an entire club, or league, being forced into lockdown for 14 days isn't going to happen due to testing and protocols in place, with the caveat it relies on people not being reckless.
Nothing is 100% safe, but the chances of the virus spreading through an entire squad is minimal.

No sure it is TBH. You only need look at factories that have been closed down to see how quickly it can just from person to person.

People being tested that are positive with no symptoms at all. I expect something happening somewhere in a football at some point IMO it is inevitable sadly.

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

No sure it is TBH. You only need look at factories that have been closed down to see how quickly it can just from person to person.
 

 

Thats only a relevant comparison if people at that factory were getting tested 2/3 times a week.

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

Talking from experience I can tell you the night before I saw my symptoms coming on I was in a restaurant in Austria having a few beers till nearly midnight. I started to feel ill during the night and by the morning I could hardly get out of bed. Granted I am not a fit professional athlete but because someone has tested negative one day it means absolutely nothing. None of this is risk free even with rigorous testing.

 

The inherent problem with the testing regime is this. There is currently a lack of knowledge of the timeframe for the initiation of viral shedding, hence the ability to transmit. It is unclear if, for instance, if BPM could have been at risk of spreading COVID-19 at this point, before he was symptomatic, while he felt well. He had no inkling that anything was wrong, and no ability to try to isolate (and potentially protect others) because he had no symptoms.

All it would take to close down a team would be a false negative on an asymptomatic player who then plays in a game, voila, the team is now potentially infected, along with the other team and a bunch of staff . Depending on the test used, the false negative rates vary from 2-29%, while the asymptomatic carrier rate is estimated between 30-50% (likely higher in populations between ages 20 and 40).

You do the maths and you get the fact that IF there is a player with the virus, the chances of him being allowed to remain in contact with other players due to a false negative result is between 0.7-14.5%. To be honest, the main reason more footballers in Scotland haven’t gotten the virus is the prevalence within Scotland is about 5% of the population. If you finagle the number based upon 5%, you end up with 0.035-0.725% chance of a failure to catch a positive player per test, with about 600+ tests a week.

So, basically, the testing regime is working for now only because the virus is relatively rare in Scotland...for now, because it isn’t going away for a while. Meanwhile, the clubs voted down giving the SPFL Board permission to decide how to sort things out if the virus shuts the season down, and they’ve put in place no plan, we’ll just vote when we need to (worked so well this time, eh?).

[Long Suffering Bairn]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I've been saying the chance of an entire club, or league, being forced into lockdown for 14 days isn't going to happen due to testing and protocols in place, with the caveat it relies on people not being reckless.

Nothing is 100% safe, but the chances of the virus spreading through an entire squad is minimal.

Trump style wishful thinking here by RandomGuy.  What we have learned from the past few months both in US and here is that many people cannot be trusted to do the safe thing, especially when asked to do small things to protect others like wearing masks. Plus as we go into the Autumn and Winter scientists report that Covid is likely to increase, perhaps to a greater degree than up to now.  We are not at the end of Covid, we are probably just past the beginning.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Long Suffering Bairn

[ilostmyself]

Denny Johnstone signs for Dumbarton. Have to say i felt pretty bad for him with us, really looked like the injuries had taken their toll on him and nothing was coming off at all, no idea what he was like with Stranraer but I wouldn't have been surprised to see him dropping out of the game.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

Trump style wishful thinking here by RandomGuy.  What we have learned from the past few months both in US and here is that many people cannot be trusted to do the safe thing, especially when asked to do small things to protect others like wearing masks. Plus as we go into the Autumn and Winter scientists report that Covid is likely to increase, perhaps to a greater degree than up to now.  We are not at the end of Covid, we are probably just past the beginning.

I'd like to think that the promise of fines etc., for breaching rules would convince clubs/players to go along with it.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

Trump style wishful thinking here by RandomGuy.  What we have learned from the past few months both in US and here is that many people cannot be trusted to do the safe thing, especially when asked to do small things to protect others like wearing masks. Plus as we go into the Autumn and Winter scientists report that Covid is likely to increase, perhaps to a greater degree than up to now.  We are not at the end of Covid, we are probably just past the beginning.

Lots of contradictory evidence about.

Look at Sweden which admits it got it totally wrong over care homes , like us, but is now doing great with no lockdown and no masks.

Worth reading up on Anders Tegnell, their Covid supreme.

The places to watch are in the Southern Hemisphere where it is winter now and so far, things are going quite well.