Wren Road Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It keeps the seals clapping and the howler monkeys howling that is its purpose.Now actually calling Indy2 and winning it.... You will be having a nervous breakdown sometime in the next 4 years. Better get the bags packed for the move to Cardiff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Emotional votes tend to be busted flushes for that very reason, which is why UKIP and Donald Trump have both peaked already. The SNP have won election after election over nearly a decade. Such a lazy argument to lump them all in together. Can't see how it's lazy to reserve judgement until I'm more informed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 23 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Based on what? This isn't having a go, I doubt anyone on here really knows the cost of breaking up the union and how Scotland would really do as an independent nation. Again, hearts says independence just not at any cost. It is almost impossible to know what an independent Scotland looks like. You're right it is impossible to know what it will look like. But it is currently impossible to influence what it will look like in any meaningful way. Indy would change that. If you want a promise of better standards of living across the board and a quick increase in personal circumstances then no-one can persuade you, because that won't happen. It will be painful I am sure for some, myself included. But, we will be then ones deciding how to make it better. Totally up to you if you think perpetual Tory governments are more likely to solve the nations ills or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: Can't see how it's lazy to reserve judgement until I'm more informed I'm not sure we're understanding each other here. The "lazy argument" is the writing off of the SNP's success as an emotional vote. The only information you need to dismiss that as illogical is the fact that they've been re-elected twice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: this Is mental, we'll get a hiding again. I realy hope im wrong with that prediction but I just cant see yes winning. pretty much true, not because its a bad idea but because people just believe what they want. as someone who voted yes 2 years ago and who voted to leave the eu its mental how many of yous have switched 180 degrees . 2 years ago the no's were telling us doom, gloom more doom and doom&gloom whilst the yes'ers were crying bullshit & scaremongering. now many (not all) of the yes'ers are desperate for the sky to fall in now that we voted to leave. (we btw because we voted to stay in the uk, and this referendum was already promised before the 2014 vote) loads on here are loving all this brexit turmoil as if to say I told you so. the sky wont fall in, the markets would do the same if we left the uk, they would recover in the end. Britain will leave the eu in some shape or form and less than 50 % of scots will vote for independence if the vote is held in the net 5 years. hiding to nothing, better wait till the times right than f**k it completely This may be the best time. Long/mid term brexit will be great news for Uk and might sink independence. Short term it will be an absolute disaster. Look at the hysteria over marmite and the surface hasn't even been scratched. Short term joe public will have to put up with a lot of crap and the day to day mentality means they will be open to vote for change. The ironic thing is that if Scotland voted to leave Uk then the carnage of brexit would be a storm in a teacup compared with trying to sort that particular one out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 54 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Based on what? This isn't having a go, I doubt anyone on here really knows the cost of breaking up the union and how Scotland would really do as an independent nation. Again, hearts says independence just not at any cost. It is almost impossible to know what an independent Scotland looks like. Based on the example of the Scottish Government and the policies pursued by the SNP. I'm also convinced that independent Labour, Tory and LibDem parties would be radically different from the UK models. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 38 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: this Is mental, we'll get a hiding again. I realy hope im wrong with that prediction but I just cant see yes winning. pretty much true, not because its a bad idea but because people just believe what they want. as someone who voted yes 2 years ago and who voted to leave the eu its mental how many of yous have switched 180 degrees . 2 years ago the no's were telling us doom, gloom more doom and doom&gloom whilst the yes'ers were crying bullshit & scaremongering. now many (not all) of the yes'ers are desperate for the sky to fall in now that we voted to leave. (we btw because we voted to stay in the uk, and this referendum was already promised before the 2014 vote) loads on here are loving all this brexit turmoil as if to say I told you so. the sky wont fall in, the markets would do the same if we left the uk, they would recover in the end. Britain will leave the eu in some shape or form and less than 50 % of scots will vote for independence if the vote is held in the net 5 years. hiding to nothing, better wait till the times right than f**k it completely You quoted the wrong post, I never said that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The Unionists on here really haven't learned anything have they. Project Fear mk2 is absolutely busted apart already. If the substance of the argument is "Brexit might be bad now but it will get better we promise" sounds awfully like some more Jam the morra to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: You quoted the wrong post, I never said that. my bad, didn't mean that. 35 minutes ago, AyrExile said: This may be the best time. Long/mid term brexit will be great news for Uk and might sink independence. Short term it will be an absolute disaster. Look at the hysteria over marmite and the surface hasn't even been scratched. Short term joe public will have to put up with a lot of crap and the day to day mentality means they will be open to vote for change. The ironic thing is that if Scotland voted to leave Uk then the carnage of brexit would be a storm in a teacup compared with trying to sort that particular one out. not realy tho, a lot of people will look at the brexit carnage and think "well if it happened that time it will be worse this time" and theres still not enough people wanting it to pass, over exited trigger happy snp members will f**k the whole thing up for the rest of us 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said: I am in favour of an eventual independence but we cannot have independence at any cost. The SNP need to provide a proper plan. In retrospect the white paper did not do that. Please Nicola present a credible and supportable argument. Bollocks to all that shite. If Brexit has taught us one thing then it's that there is no point putting forward arguments, facts or expert opinion when all you really need is a few snappy catchphrases, a dose of racism and a big fucking bus with a made up number on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said: This thread is an example that too much of modern politics is driven by emotion. The rise of UKIP, the SNP, Donald trump and more is an emotional one. British nationalism has been an 'emotionally driven' form of politics for 300 years: your concern is therefore dismissed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Anyway, Anas Sarwar trying to diagnose the internal party problems of the SNP surrounding a second referendum is definitely the funniest thing I'm going to see this year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It should be noted that this is on the basis that May continues on her apparent trajectory of "hard" brexit. This is a game of chicken I suspect May wouldn't mind losing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 British nationalism has been an 'emotionally driven' form of politics for 300 years: your concern is therefore dismissed. f**k off with your patronising pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 19 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: f**k off with your patronising pish. Don't get too emotional now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 37 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: f**k off with your patronising pish. It wasn't 'patronising'; it was dismissive. Though I'm not sure that a delicate little flower like yourself would be able to tell the difference tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It wasn't 'patronising'; it was dismissive. Though I'm not sure that a delicate little flower like yourself would be able to tell the difference tbh. So you 'dismiss' legitimate concerns. Hence proving my point. However I'm happy to be proved wrong by your detailed political and economic analysis of why independence is the right idea. Remember I'm a yes voter by heart so I'm open to be convinced so it should be easy enough for you. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Fucking Mon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: So you 'dismiss' legitimate concerns. Hence proving my point. However I'm happy to be proved wrong by your detailed political and economic analysis of why independence is the right idea. Remember I'm a yes voter by heart so I'm open to be convinced so it should be easy enough for you. Sake. How about looking at some detailed economical and political analysis of the U.K? And then go on to have a think about how little influence you have on that by being Scottish. This is not difficult stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: So you 'dismiss' legitimate concerns. Hence proving my point. Given that you falsely claimed that 'emotion' as the basis for politics was a modern development - when it has in fact formed the basis of the Union for 300 years (in the form of British nationalism) - your concern was not legitimate and was duly dismissed. Your point was demolished in the process btw - nice try though. Quote However I'm happy to be proved wrong by your detailed political and economic analysis of why independence is the right idea. Remember I'm a yes voter by heart so I'm open to be convinced so it should be easy enough for you. I'm not a professional Yes campaigner and so I'll be doing no such thing. It is utterly tedious to find attention-seekers like yourself already posturing about why supporters of independence must address your moronic concerns. Nobody cares - least of all given that this is chiefly a Scottish football forum and not in fact the Yes Scotland campaign site. Take your concern trolling elsewhere then. Edited October 13, 2016 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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