Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Mastermind said: As things are absolutely fine as they are just now, and have been for decades. There’s no need to change as far as I can see. Change is happening right now. England and Wales have decided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 On the actual subject of independence, its pleasing to see folk like Mintermind continue in the ongoing failure to make a case for the union and instead make the shift to the need for cast iron guarantees of things that are utterly impossible for anyone to make. As mentioned continually, the greatest case for the Union will always be that the Nats can’t provide any guarantees that things will not be worse under their pie in the skys plans. It’s why the majority of the Scottish electorate don’t want it. No amount of ranting by Nicola, Janey Godley and Wings changes that. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Mastermind said: As mentioned continually, the greatest case for the Union will always be that the Nats can’t provide any guarantees that things will not be worse under their pie in the skys plans. Is why the majority of the Scottish electorate don’t want it. No amount of ranting by Nicola, Janey Godley and Wings changes that. That's an idiotic argument, you can't provide any guarantees that staying in the Union wouldn't be an utter disaster for us. Edited February 20, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: That's an idiotic argument, you can't provide an guarantees that staying in the Union wouldn't be an utter disaster for us. They couldn’t even guarantee staying in the Union would keep us in the EU. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mastermind said: As mentioned continually, the greatest case for the Union will always be that the Nats can’t provide any guarantees that things will not be worse under their pie in the skys plans. It’s why the majority of the Scottish electorate don’t want it. No amount of ranting by Nicola, Janey Godley and Wings changes that. Their plans? The SNP plans for post Indy governance of Scotland are irrelevant. Whoever is to govern Scotland will be responsible for the future and whatever it entails. You are either deliberately continuing a narrative you know to be false, or you are too stupid to realise that independence is not a ticket for the SNP to rule us. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Their plans? The SNP plans for post Indy governance of Scotland are irrelevant. Whoever is to govern Scotland will be responsible for the future and whatever it entails. You are either deliberately continuing a narrative you know to be false, or you are too stupid to realise that independence is not a ticket for the SNP to rule us. Stating the bleedin' obvious there, mate. Edited February 20, 2020 by ICTJohnboy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz FFC Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mastermind said: There’s a 50/50 chance Brexit will be better or worse for us all, so let’s see how it all works out. I don't remember a bus, JRM or Nigel saying that all those years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 That's an idiotic argument, you can't provide any guarantees that staying in the Union wouldn't be an utter disaster for us.If someone says to me you can hang on until the end of the year and you could be better off or worse off, or you can take a monumental and irreversible gamble now with the risk of being even more worse off for ever more, then I’m happy to see how it rolls. That’s a personal view (and one not blinded by an anglophobic view). -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 If someone says to me you can hang on until the end of the year and you could be better off or worse off, or you can take a monumental and irreversible gamble now with the risk of being even more worse off for ever more, then I’m happy to see how it rolls. That’s a personal view (and one not blinded by an anglophobic view). No one is being anglophobic so that's another stupid diversion you can drop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 No need to consider how to address the increasing political divide between Scotland and England? If you are politically aware at all, and regardless of whether you are pro Indy or against, to dismiss it on the basis of "things are absolutely fine" is totally dishonest. Things are not absolutely fine. Things are fucked. They are going to get more fucked, and the only people who do not think so are rich Tories and stupid people. If Indy isnt the answer, something else has to be, but things are not fine in the UK politically. You’ve really not travelled very far and wide if you think we are ‘fucked’. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 You’ve really not travelled very far and wide if you think we are ‘fucked’.Yeah, you have a heavy "spends a lot of time in Benidorm" vibe tbf. Maybe I should do that too and see if it changes my outlook on whether or not it's best for my country to be governed remotely by people it comprehensively rejected at the ballot box, enacting policies it comprehensively rejected at the ballot box. Plenty to think about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mastermind said: If someone says to me you can hang on until the end of the year and you could be better off or worse off, or you can take a monumental and irreversible gamble now with the risk of being even more worse off for ever more, then I’m happy to see how it rolls. That’s a personal view (and one not blinded by an anglophobic view). As has been said, in the last referendum campaign Better Together promised that a No vote was the only guarantee to stay in the EU. And we ended up being dragged on a monumental and irreversible gamble with the only way out being to jump off the UK bus. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mastermind said: The Motherland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) If Mintermind was on the Titanic and offered a place in one of those dangerous and potentially leaky lifeboats, he’d stay aboard the great ship because there’d be a 50:50 chance that he’d not die of shock or exposure in -2 degree water. Edited February 20, 2020 by Antlion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, Grahame said: If mintermind was a MP he'd abstain on every vote. Come now - on the important votes he’d run of poll on which way his betters were voting and then do what they think best. It eliminates all that pesky thinking and ensures that he’d never knowingly even appear like he’s going against the master. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Michelle Ballantyne binned almost immediately by Carlaw, with Murdo Failure also being appointed to deal with constitutional matters. Genuinely fantastic stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: Actual businessman bases decision on probabilities https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/watchmaking-firm-quits-england-for-new-base-in-scotland-because-of-brexit-1-5092895 Lets hope this could be the first of many. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Companies might well gamble on Indy and continued use of cheaper labour from the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 If Mintermind was on the Titanic and offered a place in one of those dangerous and potentially leaky lifeboats, he’d stay aboard the great ship because there’d be a 50:50 chance that he’d not die of shock or exposure in -2 degree water.You beat me to that analogy. Though I was going with ‘No let’s stay onboard as she is unsinkable!’ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said: You beat me to that analogy. Though I was going with ‘No let’s stay onboard as she is unsinkable!’ To be fair, there was a 50:50 chance that she was unsinkable. After all, it was stated that she was “practically unsinkable” in that good British publication, The Belfast Morning News. Those lifeboats had no “cast iron guarantee” that they wouldn’t tip over, though. And they were filthy European clinker-types, lowered by Swedish Welin davits. Can’t expect an ardent, Anglophile loyalist to want anything to do with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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