John Lambies Doos Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Not quite what you asked for but I can recommend Misha Glennie's 3 part Radio documentary series "The invention of spain" as a good primerhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01nk276 And also Ernest Hemmingway's classic war novel "For whom the Bell Tolls" For whom the bell tolls is a classic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Colkitto said: Wid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 5 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: People from municipalities where the police had shut the polling station were allowed to cast their vote in a different municipality which would explain turnouts in excess of 100% Aye. Thats fine then. It in no way makes a mockery of the claimed result in any way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ross. said: Can anyone recommend a decent book on Spanish political history? Reading a lot of stuff in a lot of places that I would like to put context to. I'm reading the life and death of the Spanish Republic just now https://www.amazon.co.uk/Life-Death-Spanish-Republic-Witness/dp/1780764294 Only concentrates on the run up to and the years of the civil war but I'd highly recommend it Edited October 4, 2017 by madwullie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: Most No voters wouldn't take part in an illegal poll organised by Yes voters. It means nothing. It would mean something if the result of the poll in favour of Yes were in excess of 50% of the eligible voting population. That would render the No voters irrelevant as they wouldn't have been able to impact the outcome. That feels unlikely based on pre election polling but it may be a reason for the sort of bludgeoning disruption invoked by the polis. Spain have been utterly cuntish here. I was giving serious consideration to going to Gran Canaria in the New Year for a week but that's my £50 spending money going somewhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 'N Yellow Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Can anyone recommend a decent book on Spanish political history? Reading a lot of stuff in a lot of places that I would like to put context to. I was reading ‘The Battle for Spain’ over the summer by Antony Beevor who’s a brilliant historical author. It’s about the civil war obviously but covers the political side of things before and during the war as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Internet Citizen Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Can anyone recommend a decent book on Spanish political history? Reading a lot of stuff in a lot of places that I would like to put context to. Not entirely Spanish political history as such but The Battle for Spain by Antony Beevor gives a good history of the Civil War and its origins. On the same subject, there's an In Our Time Podcast which gives a good grounding on the Civil War. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Internet Citizen said: Not entirely Spanish political history as such but The Battle for Spain by Antony Beevor gives a good history of the Civil War and its origins. On the same subject, there's an In Our Time Podcast which gives a good grounding on the Civil War. Available Here.http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00548wn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLights Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hopefully the UK recognises Catalonia should it declare independence on Monday. Would be good to be among the first like we were with Kosovo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, NorthernLights said: Hopefully the UK recognises Catalonia should it declare independence on Monday. Would be good to be among the first like we were with Kosovo. Dingies. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, NorthernLights said: Hopefully the UK recognises Catalonia should it declare independence on Monday. Would be good to be among the first like we were with Kosovo. Unfortunately, nobody but the Catalans will recognise Catalonia if it declares independence. As abhorrent as the Spanish institutional reaction was, the referendum was fundamentally flawed and nowhere near officially recognisable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm not sure how much studying the 80 year old Civil War will help you understand what's happening now. Of course it's a factor but there were people from all over Spain fighting and resisting Franco. I doubt you would get anyone serious claiming Catalonian language and culture were getting suppressed now. 95% of Catalonians approved the post Franco constitution in a 68% turnout, the thing they're ignoring now. A hugely incompetent, corrupt and intransigent right wing Government in Madrid at the moment has been stirring it up in Catalonia, but there are right wing and intransigent elements in the Separatist camp too. The best hope is that the Madrid Government falls before the shit hits the fan completely, I don't see any good outcomes for anyone if it doesn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 25 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Unfortunately, nobody but the Catalans will recognise Catalonia if it declares independence. As abhorrent as the Spanish institutional reaction was, the referendum was fundamentally flawed and nowhere near officially recognisable. Hard to blame the Catalan authorities for that given the obstacles that were put in the way. On the wider point I think any prediction of how this will play out is impossible even by those with expertise on such matters. Wholly unchartered territory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Unfortunately, nobody but the Catalans will recognise Catalonia if it declares independence. As abhorrent as the Spanish institutional reaction was, the referendum was fundamentally flawed and nowhere near officially recognisable. I'm not sure about that. Catalonia already received cross-party support from Norway and Finland before the disgraceful state violence on Sunday. That and the region/ nation's wealth will probably win over many more in the months to come. Spain just now is about as popular as Trump, Putin or Kim Jong i.e. only with certain people with certain agendas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Ah but what currency will they use? What will happen to the shipbuilding agency? Do they really want their Spanish friends and family members of be foreigners? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm not sure about that. Catalonia already received cross-party support from Norway and Finland before the disgraceful state violence on Sunday. That and the region/ nation's wealth will probably win over many more in the months to come. Spain just now is about as popular as Trump, Putin or Kim Jong i.e. only with certain people with certain agendas. ] The latter two will recognise Catalonia. Nap 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, NorthernLights said: Hopefully the UK recognises Catalonia should it declare independence on Monday. Would be good to be among the first like we were with Kosovo. If that's the case, I wonder if some Spanish troops might be diverted towards Gibraltar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: 95% of Catalonians approved the post Franco constitution in a 68% turnout, the thing they're ignoring now. The 1978 constitutional referendum needs to be looked at with context. What were the alternatives at the time ? A return to the Francoist state or a military coup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Franco's intention was that the monarchy would continue the dictatorship. The specific section in the referendum that outlaws breakaway states was a fudge to please the fascists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I doubt you would get anyone serious claiming Catalonian language and culture were getting suppressed now. Quite the opposite, it's that the 60% of Catalonian residents who speak Spanish can't get their children schooled in their mother tongue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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