Catalonia

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Quite the opposite, it's that the 60% of Catalonian residents who speak Spanish can't get their children schooled in their mother tongue.

2/3 hours a week being taught and being allowed to speak in Spanish apart from the playground and at home. 

[DiegoDiego]

2/3 hours a week being taught and being allowed to speak in Spanish apart from the playground and at home. 

Exactly, I got more hours of lessons in French than they do in their own language. International bodies make it quite clear that children should be able to be taught in their mother tongue wherever possible.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

6 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Franco's intention was that the monarchy would continue the dictatorship. The specific section in the referendum that outlaws breakaway states was a fudge to please the fascists. 

Indeed, let's include the 'pact of forgetting' in this also, a source of bad blood.

[The_Kincardine]

2 hours ago, NorthernLights said:

Hopefully the UK recognises Catalonia should it declare independence on Monday.  Would be good to be among the first like we were with Kosovo.

I'd prefer the UK Govt to encourage Spain to hold a proper referendum.  One that recognises the legitimacy of the Catalans to decide their own future without fear or favour.

[doulikefish]

10 am monday morning the Catalan president is due to speak in parliament.Will Spain shut it down before then??

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Indeed, let's include the 'pact of forgetting' in this also, a source of bad blood.

Absolutely, why should we lay to rest the atrocities on both sides, including the 13 bishops, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, 2,364 monks and friars and 283 nuns murdered by Republicans. Time to get it all going again.

[invergowrie arab]

7 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Most No voters wouldn't take part in an illegal poll organised by Yes voters. It means nothing.

If you filled the boxes with no votes until you get an 85% turnout ( same as Scotland) Yes still wins.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

16 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Absolutely, why should we lay to rest the atrocities on both sides, including the 13 bishops, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, 2,364 monks and friars and 283 nuns murdered by Republicans. Time to get it all going again.

I was of course referring to the fact that members of the regime were given amnesty and considered reformed and rehabilitated to remain in positions of authority, as opposed to war crimes committed 40 years previously.

Bash on with the outrage though.

[Savage Henry]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Hard to blame the Catalan authorities for that given the obstacles that were put in the way.

On the wider point I think any prediction of how this will play out is impossible even by those with expertise on such matters.  Wholly unchartered territory.

 

Is it?  Kurdistan has this very week conducted its own referendum, with very similar voting patterns.  I think there are a great number of parallels in the two cases.  Admittedly, nobody expected the abhorrent behaviour of the Spanish government - which is a game changer, I agree.  Absent that, Spain would not really be in the news.  They'd just have a non-binding statement of popular opinion.

[Savage Henry]

52 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Absolutely, why should we lay to rest the atrocities on both sides, including the 13 bishops, 4,172 diocesan priests and seminarians, 2,364 monks and friars and 283 nuns murdered by Republicans. Time to get it all going again.

There were fine people on both sides.  Many, many sides.

[Crùbag]

10 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

Is it?  Kurdistan has this very week conducted its own referendum, with very similar voting patterns.  I think there are a great number of parallels in the two cases.  Admittedly, nobody expected the abhorrent behaviour of the Spanish government - which is a game changer, I agree.  Absent that, Spain would not really be in the news.  They'd just have a non-binding statement of popular opinion.

Not sure if 'Kurdistan' is similar to Catalonia. The Kurds are divided between 4 different countries IIRC and in them a lot of violence and mania that makes Spain's actions - however horrific they were by EU standards -  look mild.

[wastecoatwilly]

32% of the GDP in Spain comes from Catalonia

Edited October 4, 2017 by wastecoatwilly

[Savage Henry]

Not sure if 'Kurdistan' is similar to Catalonia. The Kurds are divided between 4 different countries IIRC and in them a lot of violence and mania that makes Spain's actions - however horrific they were by EU standards -  look mild.

I should have said Iraqi Kurdistan; a fair point.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

 

[John Lambies Doos]

32% of the GDP in Spain comes from Catalonia

Ah... the root cause

[Raven]

29 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

32% of the GDP in Spain comes from Catalonia

The BBC has it at 19%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29478415

"It is one of Spain's wealthiest regions, making up 16% of the national population and accounting for almost 19% of Spanish GDP."

[John Lambies Doos]

The BBC has it at 19%
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29478415
"It is one of Spain's wealthiest regions, making up 16% of the national population and accounting for almost 19% of Spanish GDP."

The BBC

[Raven]

2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 

The BBC

 

Fair point , but not inconsistent with other sources.

I get the impression that its role as the "Spanish economic powerhouse" is being overstated in some articles.

[welshbairn]

40 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

Not sure if 'Kurdistan' is similar to Catalonia. The Kurds are divided between 4 different countries IIRC and in them a lot of violence and mania that makes Spain's actions - however horrific they were by EU standards -  look mild.

The bit of Kurdistan in Iraq already have almost everything you need for a State and have had for years, including a standing and very effective army. The only thing they're lacking is international recognition and a territorial settlement with Iraq, including divvying up the oil. Countries very rarely break up without a war and Kurdistan forged itself within several recent ones. There's no sign of Sunni and Shia ever making up in rIraq, the Kurd part are well out of it imo, although a federal solution for Iraq without them would probably be more difficult to agree without them.

[John Lambies Doos]

Fair point [emoji4] , but not inconsistent with other sources.

I get the impression that its role as the "Spanish economic powerhouse" is being overstated in some articles.

 

Possibly. I'd say the answer falls somewhere in the middle.