The F1 Thread

[Hammerafc]

With that era overtaking was more challenging and undoubtedly more risky so you weren't able to wait for guaranteed moves under DRS. There is more overtaking now but the racing is not as intense.

[CityDave94]

19 hours ago, Burattino Di Calzini said:

Let's not forget Schumacher settled two world titles (one in his favour, one not) by deliberately crashing into his opponent. Senna did the same in 1990. Senna, in particular, seems to get a free pass for that. They were great drivers for sure, but it leaves a nasty taste. 

Prost deliberately crashing into Senna at the chicane at Suzuka to win the title left a bad taste in the mouth. Prost not even given a slap on the wrist for that. Senna had a major gripe over the powers that be, especially Balestre whom he suspected of favouritism towards Prost. There is some footage of Senna and Balestre  arguing and Senna walking out of a driver's meeting absolutely raging, Senna did not like him at all. It was all very toxic.

I did enjoy the Nannini win after the clash at Suzuka, unfortunately his only one.

Prost's take out on Senna was at slow speed and under braking, Prost turned in long before the corner as Senna was right along side and hit him. Absolutely Senna had the move done. Both cars stopped at the end of a straight which went from high speed to very heavy on the brakes into a slow chicane, so both cars in a dangerous position. Senna gets a push from the marshalls, drives through the run off and gets disqualified and loses the World title to Prost who caused the accident in the first place. Senna is the one whom gets punished. I get where he got his sense on injustice from and the chip on his shoulder but it didn't justify his actions at Suzuka the following year.

Senna's was at high speed and looked like he was make a point rather stupidly and at great risk about 'pole position being on the wrong side of the grid'. Amazing that no one was hurt and no other cars were involved (I think though the other drivers knew what might happen). Funny though that another Benetton took full advantage to win.

Schumacher was a smart one, he and the Benetton management tested the rules and everything else to their limit and beyond to gain an advantage over the faster Williams-Renault and it worked. I'm hearing that Flavio isn't in the the best of health at the moment. Great character, but a big f***ing cheat.

 

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If you're not cheating you're not trying.

[GordonS]

On 01/04/2024 at 18:34, The Moonster said:

These people are rich and have been told they were the dugs baws since they were about 5 years old, I never really understand why people expect them to be really humble and grounded. 

Not by their fathers they weren't. Verstappen and Hamilton both got,

"If you want me love you, fkn brake later."

Hamilton faced a lot of prejudice coming through, for being both black and poor. Interesting that Schumacher was also an outsider growing up - his dad was a bricklayer who maintained the local kart track - and Fernando Alonso was working class too.

[Boo Khaki]

On 04/04/2024 at 20:18, scottsdad said:

Some genius shithousery as well. Winning in Britain in the pits in '98

Qualifying on pole in Monaco in 2006, then parking his car on track to stop Alonso beating him.

Getting marshalls to push him out of the gravel in 2003 instead of retiring.

I loved all of these. But also, on the flip side:

Lapped everybody in Brazil in 94

Second in Spain in 94 in a car that only had 5th gear

Winning from 16th in Belgium in 95

Reeling in a 25 second gap in 19 laps in Hungary in 98 to win. 

And so many more.

Would likely have lapped the field and some in  Belgium in 1998 as well, had Coulthard not had an absolute Latifi moment and nearly killed him.

Still to this day can't understand why DC didn't land a ban for that. One of the most egregious acts of sheer stupidity I can remember seeing on a racing track, especially since he was also solely responsible for the galactic-sized mega-pile-up at the original start which wiped out most of the field.

One other race that I'll always remember is the 2000 Japanese Grand Prix. Not because it's the race where he clinched the first Ferrari driver's title, but because it was an absolute flat-out blast between Schumi and Hakkinen that saw them both finish over a minute clear of the field. It was absolutely no-holds barred and fantastic, balls-out racing from two guys right at the top of their game. You got the distinct impression that both of them were wringing absolutely everything out of both cars every single lap from lights to flag. MH was every bit as great on that day, MS just had a tiny edge. I watched Senna/Prost, Alonso/Schumi, and everything since, and I can't recall a race where both guys were so utterly on the limit with absolutely nothing between them the entire way. I think it's still the greatest F1 race I've watched in terms of sheer competitiveness and intensity.

There is a part of me that wishes Schumi had been a few years older, and perhaps Senna a few younger and lived beyond '94, because as great as Schumi v Hakkinen was, Schumi v Hakkinen v Senna in a still potentially competitive Williams had Renault been motivated to stick around as a Factory outfit, would really have been something else, and I think possibly looked back on as the greatest modern F1 era.

I totally get why folk believe Schumi was a git, but there was a positive aspect to his personality that most of them, even the mediocre ones totally lack. He genuinely went all-out to try and win the Title for Eddie Irvine in '99 after he came back from the leg-break, which, considering the entire Ferrari revival was driven by Schumi's obsession, shows a totally magnanimous side in the face of reality. A lot of drivers, even the "greats" would have completely patched that in order to sabotage a "rival", even though it's their teammate, and save the glory of it for their attempt the season after.

Gaston Mazzacane was asked what it's like pootling around in a shit-afwul Minardi, and why he persisted with what must have been a soul-destroying experience. Part of his reply was that he got annoyed at the total lack of consideration shown to him on the track by the other drivers, because their attitude was "here comes the clown in his clown car". The exception, he said, was Schumi, who he said was always aware of when GM was coming through on his "fast" quali lap, and he was the only guy in the field who never hesitated to dive out of the way as a courtesy to GM every single time.

Schumi was also instrumental in vouching for Massa to be given a seat to replace Barichello, as Ferrari weren't convinced, but Schumi insisted. He had such an affection for FM that when he found the team were planning to ditch him at the end of 2006, Schumi chose to retire to basically force them to keep FM on. 

He might have been a shitbag in a lot of respects, but he was also a lot more magnanimous than most of the fuckers as well. 

Edited April 6 by Boo Khaki

[V.Aye.R]

1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said:

Would likely have lapped the field and some in  Belgium in 1998 as well, had Coulthard not had an absolute Latifi moment and nearly killed him.

Still to this day can't understand why DC didn't land a ban for that. One of the most egregious acts of sheer stupidity I can remember seeing on a racing track, especially since he was also solely responsible for the galactic-sized mega-pile-up at the original start which wiped out most of the field.

One other race that I'll always remember is the 2000 Japanese Grand Prix. Not because it's the race where he clinched the first Ferrari driver's title, but because it was an absolute flat-out blast between Schumi and Hakkinen that saw them both finish over a minute clear of the field. It was absolutely no-holds barred and fantastic, balls-out racing from two guys right at the top of their game. You got the distinct impression that both of them were wringing absolutely everything out of both cars every single lap from lights to flag. MH was every bit as great on that day, MS just had a tiny edge. I watched Senna/Prost, Alonso/Schumi, and everything since, and I can't recall a race where both guys were so utterly on the limit with absolutely nothing between them the entire way. I think it's still the greatest F1 race I've watched in terms of sheer competitiveness and intensity.

There is a part of me that wishes Schumi had been a few years older, and perhaps Senna a few younger and lived beyond '94, because as great as Schumi v Hakkinen was, Schumi v Hakkinen v Senna in a still potentially competitive Williams had Renault been motivated to stick around as a Factory outfit, would really have been something else, and I think possibly looked back on as the greatest modern F1 era.

I totally get why folk believe Schumi was a git, but there was a positive aspect to his personality that most of them, even the mediocre ones totally lack. He genuinely went all-out to try and win the Title for Eddie Irvine in '99 after he came back from the leg-break, which, considering the entire Ferrari revival was driven by Schumi's obsession, shows a totally magnanimous side in the face of reality. A lot of drivers, even the "greats" would have completely patched that in order to sabotage a "rival", even though it's their teammate, and save the glory of it for their attempt the season after.

Gaston Mazzacane was asked what it's like pootling around in a shit-afwul Minardi, and why he persisted with what must have been a soul-destroying experience. Part of his reply was that he got annoyed at the total lack of consideration shown to him on the track by the other drivers, because their attitude was "here comes the clown in his clown car". The exception, he said, was Schumi, who he said was always aware of when GM was coming through on his "fast" quali lap, and he was the only guy in the field who never hesitated to dive out of the way as a courtesy to GM every single time.

 

Schumi was also instrumental in vouching for Massa to be given a seat to replace Barichello, as Ferrari weren't convinced, but Schumi insisted. He had such an affection for FM that when he found the team were planning to ditch him at the end of 2006, Schumi chose to retire to basically force them to keep FM on. 

He might have been a shitbag in a lot of respects, but he was also a lot more magnanimous than most of the fuckers as well. 

Nice post. 

I'm not sure anyone will really know what happened between DC and MS at spa, but otherwise agree on everything else

[Burattino Di Calzini]

12 hours ago, V.Aye.R said:

Nice post. 

I'm not sure anyone will really know what happened between DC and MS at spa, but otherwise agree on everything else

Felipe Massa ended up in a Ferrari largely because his manager was Jean Todt's son.

ETA: Schumi's generosity towards Felipe Massa reminds me of the old quote about a driver's ideal team mate being someone who is a second a lap slower than they are...

Edited April 6 by Burattino Di Calzini

[Spyro]

12 hours ago, V.Aye.R said:

Nice post. 

I'm not sure anyone will really know what happened between DC and MS at spa, but otherwise agree on everything else

I reckon anyone with any interest in F1 around that time remembers Spa 98, alongside him binning it in the pit lane at Adelaide for Williams, as the moment we all realised that DC wasn't bringing any championships back to Scotland!

EDIT - Also binning it on the warm up lap from pole at Monza or Imola! 

Edited April 6 by Spyro

[Burattino Di Calzini]

1 minute ago, Spyro said:

I reckon anyone with any interest in F1 around that time remembers Spa 98, alongside him binning it in the pit lane at Adelaide for Williams, as the moment we all realised that DC wasn't bringing any championships back to Scotland! 

I think binning it on the warm up lap at Monza in 1995 was a pretty clear sign he wasn't the new Jackie Stewart

[Spyro]

Basically what happened was DC was about 4 secs a lap off MS's times and was told to pull over as the spray was bad and he was being lapped. 

After already eliminating half the field at the start, DC pulls into the racing line and slows down... MS runs in the back of him then later in the pit lane tries to storm the McLaren garage. 

Great stuff lol

Edited April 6 by Spyro

[Burattino Di Calzini]

3 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Basically what happened was DC was about 4 secs a lap of MS's times and was told to pull over as the spray was bad. 

After already eliminating half the field at the start, DC pulls into the racing line and slows down... MS runs in the back of him then later in the pit lane tries to storm the McLaren garage. 

Great stuff lol

It was stupid from Coulthard, but I do think it was cock up rather than conspiracy. He was told to lift to let MS through, but did so while remaining on the racing line, which was utterly stupid given how bad the visibility was.

[Spyro]

Just now, Burattino Di Calzini said:

It was stupid from Coulthard, but I do think it was cock up rather than conspiracy. He was told to lift to let MS through, but did so while remaining on the racing line, which was utterly stupid given how bad the visibility was.

Oh definitely, it was a miscommunication and DC was just having a mare of a day. Tbf to him, unless it was perfect conditions (when the car was a rocket), that McLaren wasn't great. It was only Mika's genius that pulled it through at lot of the time.

We all saw it for what it was, DC and MS eventually made up. Ralf got his release from Eddie Jordan after he wasn't allowed to pass Damon Hill, EJ got paid, Hill got a trophy and we moved on! 

Simpler times back then without social media meltdowns and conspiracies! 

[Burattino Di Calzini]

6 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Oh definitely, it was a miscommunication and DC was just having a mare of a day. Tbf to him, unless it was perfect conditions (when the car was a rocket), that McLaren wasn't great. It was only Mika's genius that pulled it through at lot of the time.

We all saw it for what it was, DC and MS eventually made up. Ralf got his release from Eddie Jordan after he wasn't allowed to pass Damon Hill, EJ got paid, Hill got a trophy and we moved on! 

Simpler times back then without social media meltdowns and conspiracies! 

I can only imagine what Twitter would have been like had it existed at the time!

Yeah, DC was never a top line driver. A very good number 2 driver, but no more. A bit like Checo these days.

[scottsdad]

 

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, Burattino Di Calzini said:

I can only imagine what Twitter would have been like had it existed at the time!

Yeah, DC was never a top line driver. A very good number 2 driver, but no more. A bit like Checo these days.

I think it makes DC a good pundit though. He doesn't let his ego come out in passing judgement on drivers, he's always fair. He knows he was a good driver and he knows exactly how much better the champions and the greats were. I think he offers good insights for us plebs into what it's like for the drivers.

[V.Aye.R]

The DC/MS crash at Spa was either a genuine mistake, or the perfect crime. Arguably it gave Häkkinen the title that year makes it even better either way.  

[Boo Khaki]

Haven't watched a single minute of the 2024 season until now, yet here I am at 6 flaming am sitting down deluding myself that this will be something other than yet another procession.

[V.Aye.R]

Awww FFS this will be ages before it gets going again

[doulikefish]

Oh Danny 

[Boo Khaki]

Thank god it's bone dry, or else some idiot would bin it into the scenery at the restart, they all start moaning about no being able to stay on track, and we'd be sitting here 4 hours from now none the wiser as to whether there is going to be a race or not.