George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Peterhead quite rightly chopped off the map here. Nobody wants to own that dump. 

Black Isle too, probably hoped the Germans wouldn't notice it.

[hearthammer]

An interesting article just appearing in the Dunfermline Press.  Seems we're all living with the benefits reaped by the slave traders in some shape or form.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/18505069.black-lives-matter-every-scottish-street-linked-slave-trade-revealed/ 

[Florentine_Pogen]

I think it was WRK who mentioned a few pages back that 'every day is a school day' and speaking personally, I couldn't agree more. This popped up on YouTube last night and I was absolutely stunned by the govt. instigated racism that ghettoised many US cities in early 20th C. and resonates to this day.

Worth a watch.

 

[Newbornbairn]

What about the Jim Crow of Dunoon?

[Stellaboz]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but if you're still not entirely sure why this is all happening, I urge you to watch "13th" on Netflix.

[Florentine_Pogen]

6 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but if you're still not entirely sure why this is all happening, I urge you to watch "13th" on Netflix.

Cheers. Also on YT.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

On 08/06/2020 at 11:15, WhiteRoseKillie said:

..and are still doing it, and we* are not in the slightest bit bothered about it. Oh, we'll wring our hands and occasionally go full Lovejoy, but little real action is ever taken - possibly because a lot of modern slavery is state-sanctioned or even state-operated.
 Never mind the fruit-picking crisis, it will be interesting next year when our youngsters have to step up and fill the prostitute shortage when we crash out of Europe.
*UK Government, not YT personally.

Very true, slavery is very much alive and well in the UK and worldwide today yet it has not been mentioned once in the MSM or by anyone representing the BLM movement. It is something that they should genuinely be using to bring the cause into the 21st century. The trafficking of girls all over the world is clearly modern day slavery (and it happens in other areas to men too, enforced labour cases come to court frequently) yet it never seems to even register in the minds of those protesting today. You can't rewrite history as we keep hearing but they could use their energy more wisely in stopping slavery in the here and now.

Yes, modern slavery obviously isn't sexy enough for our professional protesters or rabble rousing media.

My own views are that whether you want to or not you cannot change history and attempting to do so is very dangerous, as it erases the very mistakes and reasons behind those mistakes that you should wish to avoid making in the future.

Apart from that, where does it stop ??

Are any of the rich and powerful philanthropists from our history lily white (pardon the pun) ??

What about our more recent leaders ? Churchill sanctioned the destruction and murder of tens of thousands of innocents in the likes of Dresden as a revenge for Coventry and what about all the innocents who were killed by the British and American bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

Then we have international thugs and murderers such as Winnie Mandela and Che Guevara who for some reason or other are heralded and celebrated by the very people who are currently protesting injustices across the ages, rather selective one would think ?

The point most seem to be missing about the bloke in Bristol is that he didn't have a statue erected for being a slaver, he had it erected as he built hospitals and schools for the ordinary working class people of the city, so for all his deemed faults he did much good and as such should be celebrated.

The bottom line is that you cannot use today's attitudes to judge those from centuries past as it was different times and different rules and in my opinion the history deniers are no better than the ISIS thugs who destroy anything that doesn't fit with their views, sadly these sorts of views seem to be becoming more and more prevalent in today's society and that should give us reason to be afraid rather than to applaud these misinformed ignorant thugs.

[welshbairn]

Interesting article about defunding and disbanding a police department, maybe not as daft as I originally thought for Minneapolis.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html

[pozbaird]

No statue should be hauled down and thrown into the bin. Absolute nonsense. Until pubs open and the fitba’ is back on, I planned to go into Glasgow, walk around, and play a game of ‘good guy - w**k - good guy - w**k - w**k - good guy’.  

[Jacksgranda]

12 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

No statue should be hauled down and thrown into the bin. Absolute nonsense. Until pubs open and the fitba’ is back on, I planned to go into Glasgow, walk around, and play a game of ‘good guy - w**k - good guy - w**k - w**k - good guy’.  

Take a sand wedge and half a dozen balls with you and chip them into their open hands.

[NotThePars]

[Jeff Venom]

There's yer Farage desperate to get his name back in lights by saying blm is a far left Marxist organisation aiming at defunding police forces.

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

There's yer Farage desperate to get his name back in lights by saying blm is a far left Marxist organisation aiming at defunding police forces.

It's not just Farage. The entire salaried right wing idiot chorus is banging on BLM being a Marxist plot. 

Great publicity for Karl Marx and Marxism. Hopefully the Gammoms link it to more cool stuff to get the kids radicalised. 

[welshbairn]

49 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

No statue should be hauled down and thrown into the bin. Absolute nonsense. Until pubs open and the fitba’ is back on, I planned to go into Glasgow, walk around, and play a game of ‘good guy - w**k - good guy - w**k - w**k - good guy’.  

Not sure if offering hand jobs counts as essential work tbh.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Yes, modern slavery obviously isn't sexy enough for our professional protesters or rabble rousing media.

My own views are that whether you want to or not you cannot change history and attempting to do so is very dangerous, as it erases the very mistakes and reasons behind those mistakes that you should wish to avoid making in the future.

Apart from that, where does it stop ??

Are any of the rich and powerful philanthropists from our history lily white (pardon the pun) ??

What about our more recent leaders ? Churchill sanctioned the destruction and murder of tens of thousands of innocents in the likes of Dresden as a revenge for Coventry and what about all the innocents who were killed by the British and American bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

Then we have international thugs and murderers such as Winnie Mandela and Che Guevara who for some reason or other are heralded and celebrated by the very people who are currently protesting injustices across the ages, rather selective one would think ?

The point most seem to be missing about the bloke in Bristol is that he didn't have a statue erected for being a slaver, he had it erected as he built hospitals and schools for the ordinary working class people of the city, so for all his deemed faults he did much good and as such should be celebrated.

The bottom line is that you cannot use today's attitudes to judge those from centuries past as it was different times and different rules and in my opinion the history deniers are no better than the ISIS thugs who destroy anything that doesn't fit with their views, sadly these sorts of views seem to be becoming more and more prevalent in today's society and that should give us reason to be afraid rather than to applaud these misinformed ignorant thugs.

We have a winner ladies and gentlemen

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

We have a winner ladies and gentlemen

what's your point ?

[Enigma]

“I know that I’m going to hang. But let me tell you something. Fifty or sixty years from now they will erect statues of me all over Germany. Big statues in the parks and little statues in every German home.”

Goering said this at Nuremberg. Not only was he wrong about the statues he was wrong about his own death.

[craigkillie]

12 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

what's your point ?

Well they're not "history deniers" for one thing, are they? The literal reason they've taken that statue for a nice cold bath is because they accept and understand the history.

[NotThePars]

10 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

what's your point ?

 

12 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

My own views are that whether you want to or not you cannot change history and attempting to do so is very dangerous, as it erases the very mistakes and reasons behind those mistakes that you should wish to avoid making in the future.

This is the part that gets me personally. History is being rewritten and challenged every single day, it's pretty much the point of History as a discipline. This idea that the uncritical ossification of history is desirable is a bit daft which is exactly what the demand to leave these statues up is trying to do.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

10 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

what's your point ?

My own views are that whether you want to or not you cannot change history and attempting to do so is very dangerous, as it erases the very mistakes and reasons behind those mistakes that you should wish to avoid making in the future. - Who is trying to change history? The only way to do that is through time travel. This is yet to be invented.

Are any of the rich and powerful philanthropists from our history lily white (pardon the pun) ?? - Likely not, but there is a scale upon which we judge those from the past. Their actions should be considered in context, but there are those whose actions are egregious despite this. Slavers are probably (certainly) in this group, given that abolition was not some fringe idea from about 1600 onwards.

What about our more recent leaders ? Churchill sanctioned the destruction and murder of tens of thousands of innocents in the likes of Dresden as a revenge for Coventry and what about all the innocents who were killed by the British and American bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan ? = Yes, we should think very carefully before lionising any, especially recent, leaders. Churchill is more complex than most due to his role in defeating fascism, but whether or not he should be celebrated is very much up for debate.

Then we have international thugs and murderers such as Winnie Mandela and Che Guevara who for some reason or other are heralded and celebrated by the very people who are currently protesting injustices across the ages, rather selective one would think ? - I'd say you've made an almighty big assumption there with little to no evidence. But there being potentially negative influences on the world isn't what we're talking about now, and they don't (to my knowledge) have statues in their honour in the UK. 

The point most seem to be missing about the bloke in Bristol is that he didn't have a statue erected for being a slaver, he had it erected as he built hospitals and schools for the ordinary working class people of the city, so for all his deemed faults he did much good and as such should be celebrated. - No he shouldn't. Just as it's crass that some in Medellin celebrate Pablo Escobar for building whole neighbourhoods for the economically disadvantaged, it is crass and unnecessary for us to "celebrate" a prominent slaver.

 The bottom line is that you cannot use today's attitudes to judge those from centuries past as it was different times and different rules and in my opinion the history deniers are no better than the ISIS thugs who destroy anything that doesn't fit with their views, sadly these sorts of views seem to be becoming more and more prevalent in today's society and that should give us reason to be afraid rather than to applaud these misinformed ignorant thugs. - Comparing BLM to ISIS is, unequivocally, stupid. One is a murderous death cult which took over a country and ransacked ancient sights, another threw a statue in a river. Your whole point here seems to be that you don't want to/shouldn't have to think about things in a way that makes you uncomfortable, and it's easier to lash out and say "what about modern slavery? What about Winnie Mandela? They're just like ISIS!" when it has little to do with  what we're actually discussing.