DrewDon Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I’m on the centre-left. Quite comfortably to the left of the average British voter, I imagine. Perhaps slightly to the right of the average P&B Politics Forum poster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 7 hours ago, Suspect Device said: A.N.Otherboard. You'd not like it. There are some opposing views aired. Disappointed to be excluded from this marketplace of ideas tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 30 minutes ago, Kima Greggs said: Disappointed to be excluded from this marketplace of ideas tbh. There's only 1 Hibby on the forum. Probably could do with new blood. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 8 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: As the late and undeniably great Tony Benn said, if we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people. I was abused on the Covid thread for suggesting that some of the over 50 billion we spend on 'defence' each year could be better invested in the NHS, to create a health system where we didn't have to shut the country down in situations like the one we have now. I find it astonishing that the UK government is allowed a scot-free, unquestioned, get out of jail free card on 'defence' spending. A waste of fvcking money when our NHS is creaking at the seams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I was abused on the Covid thread Aye, we've all got that T-shirt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I was abused on the Covid thread for suggesting that some of the over 50 billion we spend on 'defence' each year could be better invested in the NHS, to create a health system where we didn't have to shut the country down in situations like the one we have now. I find it astonishing that the UK government is allowed a scot-free, unquestioned, get out of jail free card on 'defence' spending. A waste of fvcking money when our NHS is creaking at the seams. Aren't you constantly dishing out abuse on that thread? No point in going elsewhere on the forum and bleating that you were abused when you are a constant ball of aggression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I was abused on the Covid thread for suggesting that some of the over 50 billion we spend on 'defence' each year could be better invested in the NHS, to create a health system where we didn't have to shut the country down in situations like the one we have now. I find it astonishing that the UK government is allowed a scot-free, unquestioned, get out of jail free card on 'defence' spending. A waste of fvcking money when our NHS is creaking at the seams. Always thought this too. We spend so much money to 'protect' the nation militarily with out of date tech and methods but criminally underfund the biggest protection we can give the nation, the NHS. How many lives does trident save vs what could have been spent on healthcare or social care in its place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said: Always thought this too. We spend so much money to 'protect' the nation militarily with out of date tech and methods but criminally underfund the biggest protection we can give the nation, the NHS. How many lives does trident save vs what could have been spent on healthcare or social care in its place? In theory? For all that, Trident is actually pretty cost effective as a means of national defence, at least if compared to the cost of actually generating conventional forces large enough to guarantee the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Both ourselves and the Americans spend eye-watering amounts of money on defence, yet the troops have to buy their own basic equipment as what they're provided with is garbage. Defence is an excellent method of emptying the public purse into the right pockets. Nae danger of that ever changing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, BFTD said: Both ourselves and the Americans spend eye-watering amounts of money on defence, yet the troops have to buy their own basic equipment as what they're provided with is garbage. Defence is an excellent method of emptying the public purse into the right pockets. Nae danger of that ever changing. That sounds about right, still always feels absolutely mental just how expensive some military vehicles are/aircraft are, figures like £9million pound for one jet fighter. Would guess once you're accounting for figures like that - at scale - its straightforward enough to find a nice little £500,000 here and there for your chums. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: That sounds about right, still always feels absolutely mental just how expensive some military vehicles are/aircraft are, figures like £9million pound for one jet fighter. Would guess once you're accounting for figures like that - at scale - its straightforward enough to find a nice little £500,000 here and there for your chums. 9 million might just about buy you a wing. The F35 has a unit price around 80 million dollars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, renton said: 9 million might just about buy you a wing. The F35 has a unit price around 80 million dollars. Jayzus, i thought i might have overestimated it a little 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Out of the quarter of the NHS budget that we spend on defence, around 5% is on nukes. The argument against them isn't the cost. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 8 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: Jayzus, i thought i might have overestimated it a little Then you've got the 6th Generation fighter project - Tempest - UK is putting in 2 Billion over the next 4 years, Italy and Sweden another Billion between them. Programme cost likely 3 to 4 times that by the time the prototype flies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, Thistle_do_nicely said: That sounds about right, still always feels absolutely mental just how expensive some military vehicles are/aircraft are, figures like £9million pound for one jet fighter. Would guess once you're accounting for figures like that - at scale - its straightforward enough to find a nice little £500,000 here and there for your chums. Private Eye used to do a good job of monitoring military equipment that was delivered late, sometimes by decades, and usually useless by the time it arrived. The brief outrage over where the Covid spending went was pathetic considering that, as a society, we seem to have decided decades ago that we're perfectly happy with our betters giving tax money to their friends and family for half-arsed, broken deliverables. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 10 hours ago, BFTD said: Private Eye used to do a good job of monitoring military equipment that was delivered late, sometimes by decades, and usually useless by the time it arrived. The brief outrage over where the Covid spending went was pathetic considering that, as a society, we seem to have decided decades ago that we're perfectly happy with our betters giving tax money to their friends and family for half-arsed, broken deliverables. What a coincidence. First thing I read today. Ministry of Defence 'failing taxpayers' by wasting £13bn, Labour says - BBC News 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: What a coincidence. First thing I read today. Ministry of Defence 'failing taxpayers' by wasting £13bn, Labour says - BBC News Complete open goal for Labour. Highly unlikely it would be any different under them. I don't get the impression it's even something that most people care about. Just so long as folk see that the government's spending a nice big sum on defence, then it must be good. Nobody's ever going to get elected by saving money on Defence of the Realm, even if improvements are made by doing so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, BFTD said: Complete open goal for Labour. Highly unlikely it would be any different under them. I don't get the impression it's even something that most people care about. Just so long as folk see that the government's spending a nice big sum on defence, then it must be good. Nobody's ever going to get elected by saving money on Defence of the Realm, even if improvements are made by doing so. Same can be said for us spending a lot of money on the test and trace (although that in theory is a better cause). As long as we're spending loads of cash, it matters not a jot that it's ineffective/inefficient and a lot goes into the greedy mitts of the Tory's mates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 That may be the case - I'll take your word for it although I'd prefer the word "significantly" to be defined. But both need to be examined within the prism of UK govt given the influence UK policy has on devolved administrations. Salmond was governing through the period where there was a Labour govt between 2007 and 2010 followed by a coalition which helped keep in check the worst excesses of the Tories. Sturgeon has mostly had to manage a relentless shift to the right at Westminster which can only have negative consequences on equality in society given that it's been one cùnt after another pandering to these UKIP type arseholes. And 10 years of austerity measures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 13 hours ago, renton said: In theory? For all that, Trident is actually pretty cost effective as a means of national defence, at least if compared to the cost of actually generating conventional forces large enough to guarantee the same. Oh, I would dearly love to see your working which led to that statement. Please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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