The Gender Debate

[TxRover]

4 hours ago, f_c_dundee said:

Which 'arguments', particularly?

Your “I don’t believe in it” approach. The Catholic Church against Heliocentrism, the Chinese and Russian Communist Parties on religion, the Church of England outside the UK on same sex relationships, the Trump Administration on immigration, and so many more use that. It doesn’t make it right, it makes you wrong…check back in a decade or two and perhaps you’ll have the good grace to be ashamed of your beliefs, but I doubt it.

As for the rest, you recycle the same points we refute and reargue them, so I’m not willing to subject everyone else to it again. You don’t agree, fine…now off you go and find another hobby horse to ride into the ground.

Edit: Just noticed that these posts match rather well with someone on EDT (Eastern Daylight Time vs BST), and the timing also matches available free time for a certain Liz Truss, visiting Washington, D.C. right now…and asking “what is a woman?”…

Edited April 14, 2023 by TxRover

[vikingTON]

On 12/04/2023 at 14:59, TxRover said:

Never suggested children be treated without adult involvement, but I will draw a line at requiring it to always be the/a parent. There are a number of case where requiring parental consent is tantamount to automatic denial, there has to be a means to allow a bypass, with appropriate controls and monitoring.

I didn't say the parent, I said the legal guardian. 

There should not be a means to bypass this, because taking consequential and irreversible medical decisions is not something that a legal child should be allowed to do by themselves. 

[Leith Green]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

I didn't say the parent, I said the legal guardian. 

There should not be a means to bypass this, because taking consequential and irreversible medical decisions is not something that a legal child should be allowed to do by themselves. 

You are right about this, but who is proposing that children can make decisions resulting in surgery?

[Jambomo]

19 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

Mridul Wadhwa is a trans woman, albeit without a GRC so I'm guessing 'LEGALLY A MAN' will be the riposte. Still, they haven't sacked her, and it does put a wee bit of a dampener on GC's insistence 'they can always tell', particularly the increasingly mental Rosie Duffield. 

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

[Bairnardo]

4 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

Is it coming as a side effect of societies recognition and attempts to correct generations of subconscious misogyny do you think?

I'm not female so won't really understand the concepts I suppose, but I guess I could say I have seen enough of what you suggest in general discourse, like when discussing that women should be able to go about their business without being exposed to shite behaviour from men, it can come across like they must not be exposed to any men at all in case they can't handle that.

 

Fwiw, anytime I have walked into the wrong bathroom, the most scared person in the room has 100% been me. 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

[Leith Green]

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

Good grief! What a sheltered life I must have led. 

I'm in my sixties, and never in my life have I seen anyone washing their willie in a gents toilet. Is that a "thing" now?

[Wee-Bey]

Always thought that those lads heading to the toilets together were doing gear.

A relief to find out that they're just washing their penises.

[Jambomo]

22 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

Laughable. Men don’t even wash their hands after a piss, Never mind washing their penis.

[carpetmonster]

24 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

There’s likely a link with autism and being trans - autistic people are over-represented in the trans community by a factor somewhere between 3 and 6 depending what you read. There’s various psychological theories around autistic people not seeing the world thru the ‘traditional’ lens applying to how they see themselves and their/the concept of gender. Autistic trans people also report difficulties in accessing gender affirming care due to providers not wanting to go near it. The bill passed in Missouri yesterday essentially makes it impossible for autistic trans people to seek care there as you can’t access care if you have conditions other than gender dysphoria - so even a diagnosis of depression, which often goes hand in hand with dysphoria, would scupper you. Kerr’s unwittingly hinting a good point but I’d imagine from the POV that autism is a problem to be fixed or that autistic people need to be white knighted for. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by carpetmonster
Grammar

[Benjamin_Nevis]

32 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

There’s likely a link with autism and being trans - autistic people are over-represented in the trans community by a factor somewhere between 3 and 6 depending what you read. There’s various psychological theories around autistic people not seeing the world thru the ‘traditional’ lens applying to how they see themselves and their/the concept of gender. Autistic trans people also report difficulties in accessing gender affirming care due to providers not wanting to go near it. The bill passed in Missouri yesterday essentially makes it impossible for autistic trans people to seek care there as you can’t access care if you have conditions other than gender dysphoria - so even a diagnosis of depression, which often goes hand in hand with dysphoria, would scupper you. Kerr’s unwittingly hinting a good point but I’d imagine from the POV that autism is a problem to be fixed or that autistic people need to be white knighted for. 

Kerr is a sewer-dwelling fucking idiot, but I guess we knew that already. 

What you say is correct though. I've a couple of friends who have autistic daughters who prefer to be referred to as "they/them". They haven't been indocrinated with tRaNs iDeOlOgY, it's just how they see themselves and how they want to be seen as. The parents have been involved in various ASD groups and charities for years now and your post above is pretty much spot on with their experiences. 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

It will come as no surprise to know he deleted that tweet and put out a more sanitised version about 20 minutes later

 

[parsforlife]

I don’t get the gotcha thing that is being aimed at here, like it should matter the slightest f**k if someone has other aspects of their lives that may or may not be linked with being trans, it doesn’t change their right to be so in the slightlest

[Suspect Device]

2 hours ago, Jambomo said:

Laughable. Men don’t even wash their hands after a piss, Never mind washing their penis.

Very true but is this not about women washing their penis.

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

I didn't say the parent, I said the legal guardian. 

There should not be a means to bypass this, because taking consequential and irreversible medical decisions is not something that a legal child should be allowed to do by themselves. 

Wasn’t addressing your point, but since it comes up, no. The reality is there is inevitably a time or situation where a parent or legal guardian is unwilling to make a medically necessary decision for a child. It is, thankfully, rare, and should be a very carefully and thoughtfully played role by the courts,  guided by medical professionals. In this case, the suggested path is also not “irrevocable”, as the exact point of discussion was puberty blockers. Since puberty blockers have an established period of effect, and are medically considered reversible, they should certainly be a consideration is some circumstances than will inevitably occur with medical opinions and parental/guardian opinions in disagreement.

This should not be taken to be a green light for gross medical intervention in this matter, but there is a need for a bypass procedure simply because people are people, and like every other circumstance in life, the law has trapdoors and bypasses built in because these issues arise. There are those who will argue that there is never a medical need in this arena, but this is a different debate and, in my opinion, pretty settled given the data available…of course, that won’t stop the arguing.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

It will come as no surprise to know he deleted that tweet and put out a more sanitised version about 20 minutes later

 

It certainly comes as no surprise that Kerr is far too much of a coward to own his bigotry. 

[Savage Henry]

3 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

Someone posts shite like that on here and they’d get binned.  Rightly so.  

[Savage Henry]

4 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

I have no idea who Julie Brindle is, but she got in an argument with Billy Bragg and basically had her arse kicked.  Another of the brain mush brigade.  
 

Honestly, what a car crash of a tweet. 

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I have no idea who Julie Brindle is, but she got in an argument with Billy Bragg and basically had her arse kicked.  Another of the brain mush brigade.  
 

Honestly, what a car crash of a tweet. 

Yeah, Billy can’t tweet anything anymore without at least 30 of them calling him a misogynist in the comments. Someone actually turned up to a show to shout at him a few weeks back.