The Gender Debate

[Leith Green]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

I didn't say the parent, I said the legal guardian. 

There should not be a means to bypass this, because taking consequential and irreversible medical decisions is not something that a legal child should be allowed to do by themselves. 

You are right about this, but who is proposing that children can make decisions resulting in surgery?

[Jambomo]

19 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

Mridul Wadhwa is a trans woman, albeit without a GRC so I'm guessing 'LEGALLY A MAN' will be the riposte. Still, they haven't sacked her, and it does put a wee bit of a dampener on GC's insistence 'they can always tell', particularly the increasingly mental Rosie Duffield. 

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

[Bairnardo]

4 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

Is it coming as a side effect of societies recognition and attempts to correct generations of subconscious misogyny do you think?

I'm not female so won't really understand the concepts I suppose, but I guess I could say I have seen enough of what you suggest in general discourse, like when discussing that women should be able to go about their business without being exposed to shite behaviour from men, it can come across like they must not be exposed to any men at all in case they can't handle that.

 

Fwiw, anytime I have walked into the wrong bathroom, the most scared person in the room has 100% been me. 

[carpetmonster]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

Such a bullshit quote as well. Plenty of men wander into the wrong bathroom and I don’t think I’ve ever done anything except laugh at their (usually drunken) confusion and they leave. No fear, no need to protect myself. 

I genuinely feel that if anything, women are being taught to be scared of men and of their environment. I am actually tired of people making out we are living in constant terror of accidentally bumping into a man at some unexpected moment. It’s very infantilising. 

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

[Leith Green]

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

Good grief! What a sheltered life I must have led. 

I'm in my sixties, and never in my life have I seen anyone washing their willie in a gents toilet. Is that a "thing" now?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Always thought that those lads heading to the toilets together were doing gear.

A relief to find out that they're just washing their penises.

[Jambomo]

22 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

Laughable. Men don’t even wash their hands after a piss, Never mind washing their penis.

[carpetmonster]

24 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

There’s likely a link with autism and being trans - autistic people are over-represented in the trans community by a factor somewhere between 3 and 6 depending what you read. There’s various psychological theories around autistic people not seeing the world thru the ‘traditional’ lens applying to how they see themselves and their/the concept of gender. Autistic trans people also report difficulties in accessing gender affirming care due to providers not wanting to go near it. The bill passed in Missouri yesterday essentially makes it impossible for autistic trans people to seek care there as you can’t access care if you have conditions other than gender dysphoria - so even a diagnosis of depression, which often goes hand in hand with dysphoria, would scupper you. Kerr’s unwittingly hinting a good point but I’d imagine from the POV that autism is a problem to be fixed or that autistic people need to be white knighted for. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by carpetmonster
Grammar

[Benjamin_Nevis]

32 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

There’s likely a link with autism and being trans - autistic people are over-represented in the trans community by a factor somewhere between 3 and 6 depending what you read. There’s various psychological theories around autistic people not seeing the world thru the ‘traditional’ lens applying to how they see themselves and their/the concept of gender. Autistic trans people also report difficulties in accessing gender affirming care due to providers not wanting to go near it. The bill passed in Missouri yesterday essentially makes it impossible for autistic trans people to seek care there as you can’t access care if you have conditions other than gender dysphoria - so even a diagnosis of depression, which often goes hand in hand with dysphoria, would scupper you. Kerr’s unwittingly hinting a good point but I’d imagine from the POV that autism is a problem to be fixed or that autistic people need to be white knighted for. 

Kerr is a sewer-dwelling fucking idiot, but I guess we knew that already. 

What you say is correct though. I've a couple of friends who have autistic daughters who prefer to be referred to as "they/them". They haven't been indocrinated with tRaNs iDeOlOgY, it's just how they see themselves and how they want to be seen as. The parents have been involved in various ASD groups and charities for years now and your post above is pretty much spot on with their experiences. 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

It will come as no surprise to know he deleted that tweet and put out a more sanitised version about 20 minutes later

 

[parsforlife]

I don’t get the gotcha thing that is being aimed at here, like it should matter the slightest f**k if someone has other aspects of their lives that may or may not be linked with being trans, it doesn’t change their right to be so in the slightlest

[Suspect Device]

2 hours ago, Jambomo said:

Laughable. Men don’t even wash their hands after a piss, Never mind washing their penis.

Very true but is this not about women washing their penis.

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

I didn't say the parent, I said the legal guardian. 

There should not be a means to bypass this, because taking consequential and irreversible medical decisions is not something that a legal child should be allowed to do by themselves. 

Wasn’t addressing your point, but since it comes up, no. The reality is there is inevitably a time or situation where a parent or legal guardian is unwilling to make a medically necessary decision for a child. It is, thankfully, rare, and should be a very carefully and thoughtfully played role by the courts,  guided by medical professionals. In this case, the suggested path is also not “irrevocable”, as the exact point of discussion was puberty blockers. Since puberty blockers have an established period of effect, and are medically considered reversible, they should certainly be a consideration is some circumstances than will inevitably occur with medical opinions and parental/guardian opinions in disagreement.

This should not be taken to be a green light for gross medical intervention in this matter, but there is a need for a bypass procedure simply because people are people, and like every other circumstance in life, the law has trapdoors and bypasses built in because these issues arise. There are those who will argue that there is never a medical need in this arena, but this is a different debate and, in my opinion, pretty settled given the data available…of course, that won’t stop the arguing.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

It will come as no surprise to know he deleted that tweet and put out a more sanitised version about 20 minutes later

 

It certainly comes as no surprise that Kerr is far too much of a coward to own his bigotry. 

[Savage Henry]

3 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Scottish Tory MSP Stephen Kerr today........................

Someone posts shite like that on here and they’d get binned.  Rightly so.  

[Savage Henry]

4 hours ago, carpetmonster said:

I know Twitter is the place to be for all things nonsense, but this one from a few days back stood out even by a bar that’s so low Satan’s currently limbo dancing under it 

I have no idea who Julie Brindle is, but she got in an argument with Billy Bragg and basically had her arse kicked.  Another of the brain mush brigade.  
 

Honestly, what a car crash of a tweet. 

[carpetmonster]

2 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

I have no idea who Julie Brindle is, but she got in an argument with Billy Bragg and basically had her arse kicked.  Another of the brain mush brigade.  
 

Honestly, what a car crash of a tweet. 

Yeah, Billy can’t tweet anything anymore without at least 30 of them calling him a misogynist in the comments. Someone actually turned up to a show to shout at him a few weeks back. 

[itzdrk]

4 hours ago, Jambomo said:

Laughable. Men don’t even wash their hands after a piss, Never mind washing their penis.

More fool you if you think it's only after a piss they don't 

[TxRover]

I started in a world where I was told I was “wrong” for daring to sit down next to a black kid when I was 10, and talk to him.

Then it was a world that disparaged those with same sex attractions, while I spent four years in college seeing the reality of a friend being a normal person with a different attraction than expected, not a monster or defective person.

Then a world where people praised God for an illness that would smite the abhorrent ones…until it started to smite them too.

Then I was given insight into the openly secret world to those same people had to pretend during business hours.

Then a world where the reality of some of what I had seen as simply play acting/role playing was revealed as a community on its own with deep hurts, and a need to hide them from an abusive world.

Then a world where we finally recognized and accepted those with differing attractions…as long as they didn’t dare to voice other issues or dress in the “wrong” clothing.

Now a world where we are hopefully advanced enough to accept that some people are not as they appear externally, but instead as they feel and know internally, and we are willing to validate those feelings and not toss them to the Kerr like trash.

 

Take a few minutes to consider the following list: Elagabalus, Charles-Geneviève-Louis-Auguste-André-Timothée d'Éon de Beaumont, James Barry, Albert D.J. Cashier, Alan L. Hart, Lucy Hicks Anderson, Jacqueline Charlotte Dufresnoy, Sir Ewan Forbes

Now tell me this is a modern problem caused by something society is accepting of or training children about.