HighlandQueen Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, Otis Blue said: So yesterday didn't tell us anything we didn't already know - there's only so much you can achieve with a limited ability squad. Think it was also a learning day for Marvin. There were two possible approaches to yesterday. First, you've nothing to lose (chances were still slim you'd make the playoffs) so have a real go. Second, was to be really compact and frustrate the Pars and make the big crowd edgy and hope to sneak a goal somehow. He went for the first and of course it left us so open at the back that the risk of a doing was always on. He might be waking up today wishing he'd gone for the latter, but I don't think it would have made a big difference as our back line couldn't have coped for 90 mins of shitfesting. The Pars were clearly a league above us yesterday. I missed yesterday but as you say our squad is sub par and there’s only so much that good coaching can do. I was sceptical when Murray and Irving were on the team sheet and frankly that selection was an error by Mr B. I won’t blame him for trying to change it at half time as he was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. As you rightly say it’s a learning experience for him. Also says to me we need sone big personnel changes if we are to compete for promotion next year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, HighlandQueen said: I missed yesterday but as you say our squad is sub par and there’s only so much that good coaching can do. I was sceptical when Murray and Irving were on the team sheet and frankly that selection was an error by Mr B. I won’t blame him for trying to change it at half time as he was damned if he did and damned if he didn’t. As you rightly say it’s a learning experience for him. Also says to me we need sone big personnel changes if we are to compete for promotion next year. Yeah, when I took my seat and saw Murray in midfield and young Irving up front I was all for heading back to my car. On the plus side, Marvin isn't frightened of making decisions and changing it - eg his three half time subs. He had to try something and he did, but our shape left the defence horribly exposed and we got the hammering we deserved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwithnoball Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 We were always onto a loser yesterday with Dunfermline needed a win to take title. I would have like to see him going with Wilson and Cochrane but he makes those decisions. I thought he got it wrong with young Irving selection. As we all know he has a total rebuild and I think it will be interesting to see who if any he keeps from our squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjc-1988 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Otis Blue said: Yeah, when I took my seat and saw Murray in midfield and young Irving up front I was all for heading back to my car. On the plus side, Marvin isn't frightened of making decisions and changing it - eg his three half time subs. He had to try something and he did, but our shape left the defence horribly exposed and we got the hammering we deserved. Let’s be honest - that selection yesterday was bonkers and made no sense whatsoever. Continually picking players who are serial under-performers is exactly why we find ourselves in the poor position that we are in. While we scraped wins in the last few games dropping Cochrane when he was finally starting to deliver for us is mystifying and if I was him I would be seriously pissed off. I sincerely hope that we don’t persevere with the back 3 next season - as soon as you face half decent opposition it becomes a 5 and you end up with no “out ball”. That’s what happened at Alloa and again yesterday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said: Let’s be honest - that selection yesterday was bonkers and made no sense whatsoever. Continually picking players who are serial under-performers is exactly why we find ourselves in the poor position that we are in. While we scraped wins in the last few games dropping Cochrane when he was finally starting to deliver for us is mystifying and if I was him I would be seriously pissed off. I sincerely hope that we don’t persevere with the back 3 next season - as soon as you face half decent opposition it becomes a 5 and you end up with no “out ball”. That’s what happened at Alloa and again yesterday. It was the same approach he's taken in the unbeaten run so I don't know why it was so bonkers. I thought it was obvious Murray or Connelly were starting as it's been one or the other. The only surprise was Irving but McKechnie hasn't been setting the heather alight so can't have many complaints. Cochrane being dropped was a surprise but we went on to win 4 games in a row after it so I don't think that decision can be particularly criticised. Similarly I have no issue with him going with this system next season but with better personnel. We've literally just come off our best run in 7 years so I can't say I find it a poor system. Edited April 16, 2023 by 19QOS19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 56 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said: Let’s be honest - that selection yesterday was bonkers and made no sense whatsoever. Continually picking players who are serial under-performers is exactly why we find ourselves in the poor position that we are in. While we scraped wins in the last few games dropping Cochrane when he was finally starting to deliver for us is mystifying and if I was him I would be seriously pissed off. I sincerely hope that we don’t persevere with the back 3 next season - as soon as you face half decent opposition it becomes a 5 and you end up with no “out ball”. That’s what happened at Alloa and again yesterday. And as soon as we went to a four instead at half time we were as open as the Mersey Tunnel and they ran through us at their whim. I absolutely get why he took a gamble at half time, we didn't really have anything to lose, but it didn't work. This group hasn't got the personnel to keep a good team out in a back four. There's nothing wrong with a five in principle either. Dunfermline have just won the league playing it for at least the first half of the season. They've used a four more often since Fisher went back to Dundee but prior to that it was usually a five. I'd actually contend we weren't awful in the five yesterday. Dunfermline had their chances, they are very good and played well yesterday, but their two goals in the first half came from a corner we allowed them to take 2 v 1 for a free shot (and Dabrowski shoveling it into the net and not wide) and from us over committing numbers forward and East failing to wipe out the attack by taking either ball or man out when he could have. These aren't system problems, they are individual mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera711 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 (edited) I'm with @Rjc-1988 on this subject - not a fan of a back three/five. At a higher level of football it can be used to play in a more open, flexible style but at our level it seems to be used in a negative way i.e. to shore up a shaky defence. With Queens that only means playing an extra poor/mediocre central defender. I realise that last summer's signing policy must have been based on using a back three, so that is why we have mostly set up in this shape this season. My main argument is that we have better midfielders than defenders, so we should play more of them and focus on controlling the game rather than ceding possession and playing an extra defender for damage limitation purposes. As others have written previously, people will defend the system by saying that we have been winning when playing it lately, but I am just expressing my objection at a more fundamental level. I don't see three at the back as a positive, creative system, particularly with the standard of defender Queens have been signing recently. It will be interesting to see how MB decides to set up once he has his own squad. Edited April 16, 2023 by Riviera711 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenacres Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Riviera711 said: I'm with @Rjc-1988 on this subject - not a fan of a back three/five. At a higher level of football it can be used to play in a more open, flexible style but at our level it seems to be used in a negative way i.e. to shore up a shaky defence. With Queens that only means playing an extra poor/mediocre central defender. I realise that last summer's transfer policy must have been based on using a back three, so that is why we have mostly set up in this shape this season. My main argument is that we have better midfielders than defenders, so we should play more of them and focus on controlling the game rather than ceding possession and playing an extra defender for damage limitation purposes. As others have written previously, people will defend the system by saying that we have been winning when playing it lately, but I am just expressing my objection at a more fundamental level. I don't see three at the back as a positive, creative system, particularly with the standard of defender Queens have been signing recently. It will be interesting to see how MB decides to set up once he has his own squad. The 3 at the back allows you to play 3 central midfielders . The vast majority of teams play 3.-5-2 . If we go 4-4-2 then we get overun in midfield . I suppose it all depends what players you have in your squad Gibson is a good attacking wide player but poor when played as a wing back as he can't defend . As you say MB has a massive summer ahead trying to get a squad good enough to at least make the playoffs . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rjc-1988 Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Otis Blue summed up things pretty well when the team was announced. We played a good side the week before with the same formation and barely got out of our own half in the second period at Alloa. In my opinion there are system problems - WG and MB have been big advocates of the No 10 role and the incumbents mainly Murray and occasionally Connelly have contributed very little in an attacking sense but have left us short handed in midfield. Look at the drubbings we have taken this year - 1-4 Clyde, 2-5 Falkirk, 0-3 Kelty 0-5 Dunfermline. The main reason we get overrun against the better teams is because we continually deploy a player in the No 10 role who doesn’t track back and the central 2 midfielders get outnumbered especially when the two wing backs end up playing as full backs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos1990 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) Kalvin fuckin orsi Edited April 21, 2023 by qos1990 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Nothing to do with Queens (apart from the possible fact that Marvin came to us from Livi) but I came across this wee video posted by @Ludo*1 I think on the Hearts Next Manager thread. I found it quite interesting and thought Martindale came across well. Gives a nice insight into the behind the scenes aspects of a manager's job at one of the more unfashionable clubs. Thought some might be interested in a wee look if you've a few spare minutes ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenacres Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, qos1990 said: Kalvin fuckin orsi Hopefully nothing in it . We will need better quality than the 2 players mentioned to get out of League 1 . -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Ach, slightly disappointed. Our club thread looked likely for a bit there, to drop off the League One front page. I found the ignominy of it strangely appealing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 40 minutes ago, Greenacres said: Hopefully nothing in it . We will need better quality than the 2 players mentioned to get out of League 1 . Talk us through all the Dumbarton games you've seen this season to draw that conclusion please? Have you EVER seen Finlay Gray play? Two years ago would you have been equally disappointed in a suggestion we were interested in Ruari Paton? (Note - Not saying the rumour is true, I wouldn't know at this stage). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos1990 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Greenacres said: Hopefully nothing in it . We will need better quality than the 2 players mentioned to get out of League 1 . I know Bartley has been to watch Grey a few times, gathering orsi has caught the eye. Not one I’d have even considered in previous viewings 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Greenacres said: Hopefully nothing in it . We will need better quality than the 2 players mentioned to get out of League 1 . We picked up a forward from Dumbarton (well OK on loan from St J) a few years back ... he was half decent IIRC ... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Kalvin Orsi is a bit if a donkey. Though he seems to enjoy a goal against us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos1990 Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: Kalvin Orsi is a bit if a donkey. Though he seems to enjoy a goal against us. On their thread, he’s getting talked up. On the wing rather than upfront. Like I say I know Bartley has went to watch Gray a few times, so Orsi must’ve caught the eye in them games 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwithnoball Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Well me of all doubters says Bartley has to build his own squad. Not excited by the players we have been linked with. Lower teams than ourselves we will be hoping he has some experienced lined up also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_palmy_pie Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Greenacres said: Hopefully nothing in it . We will need better quality than the 2 players mentioned to get out of League 1 . Two players you know nothing about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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