The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[Freedom Farter]

3 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Greer - who can kindly be described as a nyaff - has repeatedly spoken out against Assad and his regime. Assad is considered to be directly responsible for the death of over 230,000 of his own people in the last 10 years, including over 15,000 estimated to be tortured and over 150,000 forcible disappearances. Assad and said regime remain in power but Greer is no longer in Government. Is this the meme story/comparator here? 

If I have understood correctly - and perhaps not - this is not just peak Facebook Da here, this is a whole new level.....

Assad debate* is worthwhile, probably the wrong thread for it, though.

 

*I don't mean Assad debate per se, as in debate about his character, his responsibility for the mass slaughter of innocents is a closed book case. I mean debate on wider issues around the Syrian civil war.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

If you're Forbes or her allies then absolutely. Not to mention being able to give a public show of loyalty to The Party after the Greens have been emptied, which is the obvious smart play before taking over in a couple of years and packaging Continuity Nicola as the problem.

But with the numbers literally balanced it does only take one or two MSPs to take a leaf out of the UK Tory party book, decide a change of leadership is needed now, and it's game over for Yousaf. I think the sight of assorted Yoon parties launching VONC will prop up party discipline that wouldn't have necessarily been there - with the removal of Slater's fruit loops placating the most likely rebels too. 

The alternative of letting a handful of weirdos in sandals debate for weeks and then choose whether the SG is quite shite enough to leave remains the worse of the two possible options Yousaf faced by the start of the week. 

Would it be giving Humza too much credit to suggest that this is the start of him doing similar and attempting to distance himself ? (A full year down the line tbf)

[sophia]

8 minutes ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

Would it be giving Humza too much credit to suggest that this is the start of him doing similar and attempting to distance himself ? (A full year down the line tbf)

He's finally getting to the starting point of the counterfactual. 

I'm not at all sure what to make of him spending twelve months steadily adopting the ideas of his main rival. 

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

Would it be giving Humza too much credit to suggest that this is the start of him doing similar and attempting to distance himself ? (A full year down the line tbf)

Maybe not but he has fucked it up spectacularly. 

He has form for making impulsive decisions eg ripping up the Verity House agreement 5 minutes after signing it with COSLA by announcing the council tax freeze and not consulting his cabinet.

It's now clear he can't stay on. I imagine he will he sold sooner rather than later, if he hasn't already, that being beholden to Alba is intolerable. 

Whilst the likes of Forbes might like him to own a WM defeat I think there will be enough MPs in the central belt thinking there is enough time to turn it around or the Humza effect hasn't bottomed out yet.

[MazzyStar]

6 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Greer - who can kindly be described as a nyaff - has repeatedly spoken out against Assad and his regime. Assad is considered to be directly responsible for the death of over 230,000 of his own people in the last 10 years, including over 15,000 estimated to be tortured and over 150,000 forcible disappearances. Assad and said regime remain in power but Greer is no longer in Government. Is this the meme story/comparator here? 

If I have understood correctly - and perhaps not - this is not just peak Facebook Da here, this is a whole new level.....

It’s not that deep. 

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, D Angelo Barksdale said:

Would it be giving Humza too much credit to suggest that this is the start of him doing similar and attempting to distance himself ? (A full year down the line tbf)

I think it's giving Yousaf too much credit as opposed to an adult political advisor who has been able to apply Politics 101 over the past week.

The same applies to Forbes' public vote of confidence: she doesn't need to try and play 4-D chess when Yousaf's genuine authority is pretty much toast already. He might well get lockstep MSP support but absolutely none of it is for him personally.

4 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Maybe not but he has fucked it up spectacularly. 

He has form for making impulsive decisions eg ripping up the Verity House agreement 5 minutes after signing it with COSLA by announcing the council tax freeze and not consulting his cabinet.

It's now clear he can't stay on. I imagine he will he sold sooner rather than later, if he hasn't already, that being beholden to Alba is intolerable. 

Beholden how exactly? Last time I checked, the memo wasn't that the SNP would create a new BHA with Ash fucking Regan. 

The SNP ran the country with nowhere near a majority at Holyrood for four years. While they're now on the other side of the government cycle, offering either a compromise (e.g. Budget items) or staring down other parties who don't actually want a collapse of government and election (Greens) is entirely viable IMO. 

Edited April 28 by vikingTON

[Juanhourjoe]

On 25/04/2024 at 22:23, virginton said:

Can you identify where in the BHA it stated that the SNP would ignore an objective fact-based review of child healthcare provision if the conclusions don't match up with Greens' garbage identity politics hot take?

Seems a kinda strange thing to bake into a deal nearly three years beforehand. 

There's plenty of other decisions been made that would have led us here anyway. But seeing as we're talking about a report for NHS England. Not Scottish health service. I'd guess It would breach the no surprises clause. Same as the council tax freeze.

[KingRocketman II]

8 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

It’s not that deep. 

clearly. 

[KingRocketman II]

11 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Assad debate* is worthwhile, probably the wrong thread for it, though.

 

*I don't mean Assad debate per se, as in debate about his character, his responsibility for the mass slaughter of innocents is a closed book case. I mean debate on wider issues around the Syrian civil war.

If looking to have that debate, feel free. 

[ICTChris]

What’s the Green equivalent of Kremlinology? Tofuology?

https://archive.is/2024.04.28-065614/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283185.greens-state-civil-war-rebels-demand-harvie-slater-go/
 

The idea of Ross Greer as the hidden hand/vampire squid manipulator is very funny though.

Yhere was a report somewhere that Salmond/_Regan have said they want an electoral pact where the SNP give Alba free run at some seats. Seems a non-starter for me but what do I know.

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

What’s the Green equivalent of Kremlinology? Tofuology?

https://archive.is/2024.04.28-065614/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283185.greens-state-civil-war-rebels-demand-harvie-slater-go/
 

The idea of Ross Greer as the hidden hand/vampire squid manipulator is very funny though.

Yhere was a report somewhere that Salmond/_Regan have said they want an electoral pact where the SNP give Alba free run at some seats. Seems a non-starter for me but what do I know.

Refusing to put up a candidate so a party with 1% of the vote can win; seems like a foolproof plan and I can see no downside at all.

[Freedom Farter]

3 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

If looking to have that debate, feel free. 

I don't have much to contribute on it. I was more just meaning that its still an ongoing concern even though it no longer makes the news headlines. Shame it cropped up in this thread not the geopolitics one as I'd be interested in folk's opinions.

[invergowrie arab]

8 hours ago, virginton said:

I think it's giving Yousaf too much credit as opposed to an adult political advisor who has been able to apply Politics 101 over the past week.

The same applies to Forbes' public vote of confidence: she doesn't need to try and play 4-D chess when Yousaf's genuine authority is pretty much toast already. He might well get lockstep MSP support but absolutely none of it is for him personally.

Beholden how exactly? Last time I checked, the memo wasn't that the SNP would create a new BHA with Ash fucking Regan. 

The SNP ran the country with nowhere near a majority at Holyrood for four years. While they're now on the other side of the government cycle, offering either a compromise (e.g. Budget items) or staring down other parties who don't actually want a collapse of government and election (Greens) is entirely viable IMO. 

You might be correct but his personal authority is shot.

Interesting if the Tories would actually want a general election given there is every reason to expect they could go back to 4th party status.

[Leith Green]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

What’s the Green equivalent of Kremlinology? Tofuology?

https://archive.is/2024.04.28-065614/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283185.greens-state-civil-war-rebels-demand-harvie-slater-go/
 

The idea of Ross Greer as the hidden hand/vampire squid manipulator is very funny though.

Yhere was a report somewhere that Salmond/_Regan have said they want an electoral pact where the SNP give Alba free run at some seats. Seems a non-starter for me but what do I know.

The Greens are looking more and more like a less competent version of a Bowling Club committee.

I cant really take seriously the notion of Ross Greer as some Machiavellian puppet master.

[houston_bud]

3 hours ago, Leith Green said:

The Greens are looking more and more like a less competent version of a Bowling Club committee.

I cant really take seriously the notion of Ross Greer as some Machiavellian puppet master.

I listened to James O'Brien's podcast earlier, where he interviewed Caroline Lucas. I've always been pretty impressed with her, and I was again listening to it. Intelligent, thoughtful, interesting, humble. She seems like she'd be an easy person to work with.

Then I thought about the absolute clowns in charge of the Scottish Greens. Actual morons, who love the sound of their own voice, that think they are far more important and capable than they are.

Andy Wightman was an intelligent and formidable guy for the Scottish greens but other than that, they're either idiots or no marks.

[vikingTON]

14 hours ago, Juanhourjoe said:

There's plenty of other decisions been made that would have led us here anyway. But seeing as we're talking about a report for NHS England. Not Scottish health service. I'd guess It would breach the no surprises clause. Same as the council tax freeze.

Recommendations about inappropriate NHS provision for children south of the border has obvious, direct relevance for Scotland's provision of the exact same services. Any competent government is not only entitled but expected to respond to that report.

So no evidence that the SNP breached their agreement, but plenty of evidence that Patrick Harvie and others think that their ideology should automatically trump expert findings and objective reality (it does not).

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

You might be correct but his personal authority is shot.

Interesting if the Tories would actually want a general election given there is every reason to expect they could go back to 4th party status.

His personal authority was shot long ago though.

[ICTChris]

I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for Yousef to be honest
 

“So given that it’s likely that your party will be ending the Agreement anyway, I’ve decided to avoid weeks of speculation and we will bring it to a close now”

*HEAD EXPLODING PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE PETULENCE INTENSIFIES*
 

Imagine what it was like day to day.

[ICTChris]

First line of this long read about the Greens.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283157.inside-story-green-rebels-want-rid-leadership/
 

Quote

The anger among Green Party rebels is palpable. Some are close to tears.

Please can everyone stop crying.

The article also makes a good point - just like Yousaf was singing the praises of the BHA days before binning it, the Greens were doing the same and are now utterly implacably opposed to Yousaf, to the point they now say he has been captured by conservative reactionary forces and must go now. Did you only find this out last week? Seems like something you might have noticed already!

Edited April 28 by ICTChris

[Freedom Farter]

13 hours ago, ICTChris said:

What’s the Green equivalent of Kremlinology? Tofuology?

https://archive.is/2024.04.28-065614/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283185.greens-state-civil-war-rebels-demand-harvie-slater-go/
 

The idea of Ross Greer as the hidden hand/vampire squid manipulator is very funny though.

Yhere was a report somewhere that Salmond/_Regan have said they want an electoral pact where the SNP give Alba free run at some seats. Seems a non-starter for me but what do I know.

That reads like it's just folk who don't like each other personally calling each other names. The misogyny accusations seem especially cynical. Although I can imagine one potential fault line. I've wondered if some Greens believe they should never be a party of government and should never be joining in any coalitions. These folk might feel the whole point of the Greens is to act as an opposition pressure at all times. That way, you can maintain your laser focus on your mission statement, free from compromise. Then its by taking votes away from the big parties that you force them to change. 

Edited April 28 by Freedom Farter