Rovers 🔵 ⚪️ v Pars ⚫️ ⚪️- 9th March

[Lang Toun Lad]

An interesting stat but I'd also say it highlights just how poor we can be at the back.

[grumswall]

44 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

Never mind the penalty shout that Matty Todd got booked for, 05:35 on the Rovers highlights is a stonewaller, every day of the week. Ref had a brilliant view. Personally think the ref got the “dive” wrong too, was far to keen to make it about him, more cards than Mother's Day.

For the record, we’d have probably missed the penalties had they been given… 

Todd's was 100% a dive. I'm not sure what you expected Murray to do while being on the ground in that situation but I wouldn't have said that was a penalty and wouldn't have shouted for it if it was for us. I also don't think we should have had a pen, I thought stanton just twisted awkwardly and was actually more worried about him being injured at the time than getting a penalty. 

On the overall game, we've pretty much once again played dunfermline perfectly. Let them have the ball and move it side to side. The times they looked remotely dangerous was with otoo driving through the middle and playing one twos, which subsequently resulted in a tremendous save from big Kev. Mcpake hooking otoo for mccan was baffling and actually helped us. 

The flare pish needs to f**k off now. First one hit a guy on the back, narrowly missing his kid, then the little p***ks where coming down and using the residue to paint there faces etc. Don't know where the second landed but the third one landing on the pitch has probably damaged it in some way and also killed any momentum we should have had at that moment. 

Walking along the links after the game and I was unfortunately doing it at the same time as a group who where en route to the estuary, bricks etc in hand and where debating wether the people outside at the time where dunfermline fans. Just fucking moronic behaviour. It looked to me like there was a couple older guys essentially directing traffic and the rest where all young. Police showed up which seemed to deter them at the time though. 

[The Toun Clock]

4 minutes ago, grumswall said:

Todd's was 100% a dive. I'm not sure what you expected Murray to do while being on the ground in that situation but I wouldn't have said that was a penalty and wouldn't have shouted for it if it was for us. I also don't think we should have had a pen, I thought stanton just twisted awkwardly and was actually more worried about him being injured at the time than getting a penalty. 

Just watched it back, Brown isn’t on the ground, not sure what you mean? The first one is debatable and the ref deemed it a dive, the second one is a penalty. Just had a look at the penalty you got (first time I’ve watched it back) and it’s more of a dive than Todd’s was early on.

[Halbeath Raith Rover]

2 minutes ago, grumswall said:

Todd's was 100% a dive. I'm not sure what you expected Murray to do while being on the ground in that situation but I wouldn't have said that was a penalty and wouldn't have shouted for it if it was for us. I also don't think we should have had a pen, I thought stanton just twisted awkwardly and was actually more worried about him being injured at the time than getting a penalty. 

On the overall game, we've pretty much once again played dunfermline perfectly. Let them have the ball and move it side to side. The times they looked remotely dangerous was with otoo driving through the middle and playing one twos, which subsequently resulted in a tremendous save from big Kev. Mcpake hooking otoo for mccan was baffling and actually helped us. 

The flare pish needs to f**k off now. First one hit a guy on the back, narrowly missing his kid, then the little p***ks where coming down and using the residue to paint there faces etc. Don't know where the second landed but the third one landing on the pitch has probably damaged it in some way and also killed any momentum we should have had at that moment. 

Walking along the links after the game and I was unfortunately doing it at the same time as a group who where en route to the estuary, bricks etc in hand and where debating wether the people outside at the time where dunfermline fans. Just fucking moronic behaviour. It looked to me like there was a couple older guys essentially directing traffic and the rest where all young. Police showed up which seemed to deter them at the time though. 

Guy in the third or fourth back row tried to set off some sort of firecracker when Stanton scored. It didn't light and he was huckled straight away, so stewards are taking action where they see it. 

A decent sized section set up as a singing section for next season is a must for me. Easier to steward them all in the one visible place.

Top of stair 3 was pretty overcrowded. I'm not going to be over critical of a couple of boys squeezing in so they can join in the singing (done it myself when I was younger) but there was more than 2 per seat in some bits and the resulting spilling out in to the aisle, and constant steward presence couldn't be relaxing for someone over the aisle just wanting to watch the game. 

Even with bigger crowds im sure with a bit of common sense we can allow everyone to enjoy the match the way they want to (obv exclding outrageous stuff like throwing smoke bombs on the pitch) 

[grumswall]

6 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

Just watched it back, Brown isn’t on the ground, not sure what you mean? The first one is debatable and the ref deemed it a dive, the second one is a penalty. Just had a look at the penalty you got (first time I’ve watched it back) and it’s more of a dive than Todd’s was early on.

Do you mean when your player was knocked over? I assumed you where talking about the ball hitting Murray while he was on the ground. Looks like it was Matthews that done that. Would have been a soft pen but seen them given. I don't think stanton dived or was even looking for a penalty. Looked to me at the time he was just fucked and turned awkwardly which you can't really make our in the highlights. 

[The Toun Clock]

2 minutes ago, grumswall said:

Do you mean when your player was knocked over? I assumed you where talking about the ball hitting Murray while he was on the ground. Looks like it was Matthews that done that. Would have been a soft pen but seen them given. I don't think stanton dived or was even looking for a penalty. Looked to me at the time he was just fucked and turned awkwardly which you can't really make our in the highlights. 

Directly after that, 05:35 on your highlights, ball is loose, Todd touches it and is wiped out. He probably didn’t purposely dive but it doesn’t look like he was touched. Another Craig Napier shocker. 

[grumswall]

1 minute ago, Halbeath Raith Rover said:

Guy in the third or fourth back row tried to set off some sort of firecracker when Stanton scored. It didn't light and he was huckled straight away, so stewards are taking action where they see it. 

A decent sized section set up as a singing section for next season is a must for me. Easier to steward them all in the one visible place.

Top of stair 3 was pretty overcrowded. I'm not going to be over critical of a couple of boys squeezing in so they can join in the singing (done it myself when I was younger) but there was more than 2 per seat in some bits and the resulting spilling out in to the aisle, and constant steward presence couldn't be relaxing for someone over the aisle just wanting to watch the game. 

Even with bigger crowds im sure with a bit of common sense we can allow everyone to enjoy the match the way they want to (obv exclding outrageous stuff like throwing smoke bombs on the pitch) 

Yeah I'm all for them coming to the game and creating an atmosphere (not that I think they've really been doing that for a while now) but they seem more interested in all the daft stuff at this stage. A designated singing section might help that but at the same time, the stewards know where they are as it is, because as you say, they are all cramming in to that one area. 

[The Toun Clock]

9 minutes ago, Halbeath Raith Rover said:

Guy in the third or fourth back row tried to set off some sort of firecracker when Stanton scored. It didn't light and he was huckled straight away, so stewards are taking action where they see it. 

A decent sized section set up as a singing section for next season is a must for me. Easier to steward them all in the one visible place.

Top of stair 3 was pretty overcrowded. I'm not going to be over critical of a couple of boys squeezing in so they can join in the singing (done it myself when I was younger) but there was more than 2 per seat in some bits and the resulting spilling out in to the aisle, and constant steward presence couldn't be relaxing for someone over the aisle just wanting to watch the game. 

Even with bigger crowds im sure with a bit of common sense we can allow everyone to enjoy the match the way they want to (obv exclding outrageous stuff like throwing smoke bombs on the pitch) 

Someone let off/threw one of those firecrackers from our end at the start of the second half, very nearly shit my pants.

[grumswall]

2 minutes ago, The Toun Clock said:

Directly after that, 05:35 on your highlights, ball is loose, Todd touches it and is wiped out. He probably didn’t purposely dive but it doesn’t look like he was touched. Another Craig Napier shocker. 

Yeah iv seen them given and seen them not given. Todd going down early on probably didn't help his case there with napier. I didn't think stanton was touched at the time either so was surprised it was a pen but again, I was more worried with him being injured. 

[SerieA]

1 hour ago, grumswall said:

Walking along the links after the game and I was unfortunately doing it at the same time as a group who where en route to the estuary, bricks etc in hand and where debating wether the people outside at the time where dunfermline fans. Just fucking moronic behaviour. It looked to me like there was a couple older guys essentially directing traffic and the rest where all young. Police showed up which seemed to deter them at the time though. 

Our support has grown this season as has the amount of knobs. Something I think we’ll just have to accept. Every team has them these days.

[bagpuss]

5 minutes ago, SerieA said:

Our support has grown this season as has the amount of knobs. Something I think we’ll just have to accept. Every team has them these days.

I think the game got a bit complacent and thought most of  this aggro nonsense was a thing of the past. That it's making such a comeback is really depressing.

[Halbeath Raith Rover]

56 minutes ago, grumswall said:

Yeah I'm all for them coming to the game and creating an atmosphere (not that I think they've really been doing that for a while now) but they seem more interested in all the daft stuff at this stage. A designated singing section might help that but at the same time, the stewards know where they are as it is, because as you say, they are all cramming in to that one area. 

I'm maybe on the generous side... and perhsps people will view a singing section as rewarding bad behaviour.

My view is that you establish dialouge and set certain boundaries with the main faces. I do get that this has varied success, and the YT will have the club saying one thing and then also have the influence of social media showing other Ultra groups running amok letting off pyro etc... so you might engage as a club and be left disappointed as behaviour isn't perfect.

You also have the issue that the YT that follow us home and away are bolstered in numbers for the pars games, the hangers on are less invested in the club and less likely to tone things down.

At least with a dedicated section... large enough for them, you have one person per seat and you aren't having a guy who's brought the kids along having to worry about drunk teens falling over his family.

TLDR... if you've had a pre match key of ket stay away from kids eating popcorn.

[grumswall]

17 minutes ago, SerieA said:

Our support has grown this season as has the amount of knobs. Something I think we’ll just have to accept. Every team has them these days.

Agree but I think the club could do better with that. They tried the railway stand but it was never going to work being at the opposite end of the stadium. 

5 minutes ago, Halbeath Raith Rover said:

I'm maybe on the generous side... and perhsps people will view a singing section as rewarding bad behaviour.

My view is that you establish dialouge and set certain boundaries with the main faces. I do get that this has varied success, and the YT will have the club saying one thing and then also have the influence of social media showing other Ultra groups running amok letting off pyro etc... so you might engage as a club and be left disappointed as behaviour isn't perfect.

You also have the issue that the YT that follow us home and away are bolstered in numbers for the pars games, the hangers on are less invested in the club and less likely to tone things down.

At least with a dedicated section... large enough for them, you have one person per seat and you aren't having a guy who's brought the kids along having to worry about drunk teens falling over his family.

TLDR... if you've had a pre match key of ket stay away from kids eating popcorn.

I think having a dedicated section for them will help police them better, it's something dunfermline have done very well with the section north West group. Our problem with that is that the perfect place to put them is just not available. 

Christina is a fairly well known fan. She had her jacket burned by pyro at east end. Pyro hitting a guy in the back who had literally just sat down with his kid before ko even happened yesterday. Moving them to the front of the stand doesn't work. I witnessed something being thrown by one of them at Walton at Tannadice while I was amongst them. They clearly aren't policing themselves. Someone is going to end up with an injury with it all and I genuinely don't think they are actually adding an atmosphere anymore. 

[parsforlife]

54 minutes ago, bagpuss said:

I think the game got a bit complacent and thought most of  this aggro nonsense was a thing of the past. That it's making such a comeback is really depressing.

I think its a bit more nuanced. There is no doubt for me the shitty behaviour is probably the worst it has been in my lifetime 

Economics has a big part to play for me, if you look at the history of football violence then it seems worst at times of poor economic performance, I think that results in 2 things, 1.  poor prospects for youngsters resulting in anger.  2. and probably more of a factor, policing numbers, you look at the number of officers patrolling things along links street and they just aren't anywhere enough to take control of things, their best hope is to arrest the worst offenders, but when they are forced to watch guys launching flares from 10ft away from them and can't take action there's a massive problem.

Edited March 10 by parsforlife

[Specky Ginger]

21 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I think its a bit more nuanced. There is no doubt for me the shitty behaviour is probably the worst it has been in my lifetime 

Economics has a big part to play for me, if you look at the history of football violence then it seems worst at times of poor economic performance, I think that results in 2 things, 1.  poor prospects for youngsters resulting in anger.  2. and probably more of a factor, policing numbers, you look at the number of officers patrolling things along links street and they just aren't anywhere enough to take control of things, their best hope is to arrest the worst offenders, but when they are forced to watch guys launching flares from 10ft away from them and can't take action there's a massive problem.

It's not just numbers of police officers, it's strategy.

I'm not blaming one set of fans any more or less than the other for the aggro on Links Street, but when most of the Pars boys are coming from the High Street, surely the police should be escorting them up Milton Road, which brings them closer to the away end anyway.

The flashpoint is always outside the Estuary pub where Rovers fans are smoking and vaping outside, so surely diverting the Pars fans away from there reduces the chances of trouble.

Edited March 10 by Specky Ginger

[grumswall]

16 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I think its a bit more nuanced. There is no doubt for me the shitty behaviour is probably the worst it has been in my lifetime 

Economics has a big part to play for me, if you look at the history of football violence then it seems worst at times of poor economic performance, I think that results in 2 things, 1.  poor prospects for youngsters resulting in anger.  2. and probably more of a factor, policing numbers, you look at the number of officers patrolling things along links street and they just aren't anywhere enough to take control of things, their best hope is to arrest the worst offenders, but when they are forced to watch guys launching flares from 10ft away from them and can't take action there's a massive problem.

The police know where both groups of fans are largely coming from both pre and post match. I said earlier that their presence stopped it kicking off after the game and I did see them walking a group of fans towards the train station where they had a van sitting when I passed in the car. It's poor policing on both occasions though as it's easy to know pars fans where meeting in occonells pre match, where they could then

 

Just now, Specky Ginger said:

I'm not blaming one set of fans any more or less than the other for the aggro on Links Street, but when most of the Pars boys are coming from the High Street, surely the police should be escorting them up Milton Road, which brings them closer to the away end anyway.

The flashpoint is always outside the Estuary pub where Rovers fans are smoking and vaping outside, so surely diverting the Pars fans away from there reduces the chances of trouble.

It was pars fans who where stood waiting outside the estuary after the game, with ours walking along, bricks etc in hand. Which again is easily dealt with if policed correctly. I actually had to say to a couple who must stay down that way to hang back so they didn't get caught up in it just before the police did show up. 

[SerieA]

55 minutes ago, grumswall said:

Agree but I think the club could do better with that. They tried the railway stand but it was never going to work being at the opposite end of the stadium. 

I think having a dedicated section for them will help police them better, it's something dunfermline have done very well with the section north West group. Our problem with that is that the perfect place to put them is just not available. 

Christina is a fairly well known fan. She had her jacket burned by pyro at east end. Pyro hitting a guy in the back who had literally just sat down with his kid before ko even happened yesterday. Moving them to the front of the stand doesn't work. I witnessed something being thrown by one of them at Walton at Tannadice while I was amongst them. They clearly aren't policing themselves. Someone is going to end up with an injury with it all and I genuinely don't think they are actually adding an atmosphere anymore. 

The club has tried different things in the stadium. Love the comments over the tannoy about pyros and even earlier on in the season when folk were on or were thinking of going on the pitch.

Very hard for them to control what goes on outside. Murray did mention fans behaviour during the interview before the game.

It’s been the same location before every game.Maybe the Police should try something different next season. Said with the confidence that the Pars won’t be relegated 

[da_no_1]

Why anyone would want to walk along Links St is an absolute mystery to me. Makes the Gaza Strip look like Beverly Hills.

[CountryBumpkin]

53 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I think its a bit more nuanced. There is no doubt for me the shitty behaviour is probably the worst it has been in my lifetime 

Economics has a big part to play for me, if you look at the history of football violence then it seems worst at times of poor economic performance, I think that results in 2 things, 1.  poor prospects for youngsters resulting in anger.  2. and probably more of a factor, policing numbers, you look at the number of officers patrolling things along links street and they just aren't anywhere enough to take control of things, their best hope is to arrest the worst offenders, but when they are forced to watch guys launching flares from 10ft away from them and can't take action there's a massive problem.

The biggest factor is probably social media and anonymous stupidity that goes with it. It's far too easy to organise these things on crap like Snapchat or Twitter/X without any consequences. People recording it and hoping for engagement out of it with again no repercussions of any note. 

Policing and stewarding is also becoming much more passive, having the kids pat themselves down on the way in to check for pyro is the most nonsensical thing, even though there are valid reasons for stewards to not manhandle children. 

Clubs probably need to take more responsibility to identify these people both at the time and after the fact, there is CCTV, every ticket has an associated person and seat so finding them won't be difficult. 

Our pitch looked to suffer some damage from the flare at the end, no idea why the guy didn't at least lift it off the field of play instead of just watching it and dropping his hard hat. I'd like to think the person responsible is identified and billed for the repairs 

[grumswall]

35 minutes ago, SerieA said:

The club has tried different things in the stadium. Love the comments over the tannoy about pyros and even earlier on in the season when folk were on or were thinking of going on the pitch.

Very hard for them to control what goes on outside. Murray did mention fans behaviour during the interview before the game.

It’s been the same location before every game.Maybe the Police should try something different next season. Said with the confidence that the Pars won’t be relegated 

I'm not blaming the club for what happens outside the stadium. That's entirely on the police. The club does unfortunately have to take some responsibility for what happens within the stadium though. The police within the stadium did the square root of f**k all as well from what I seen. Lots of pointing and that was about it. 

1 minute ago, CountryBumpkin said:

The biggest factor is probably social media and anonymous stupidity that goes with it. It's far too easy to organise these things on crap like Snapchat or Twitter/X without any consequences. People recording it and hoping for engagement out of it with again no repercussions of any note. 

Policing and stewarding is also becoming much more passive, having the kids pat themselves down on the way in to check for pyro is the most nonsensical thing, even though there are valid reasons for stewards to not manhandle children. 

Clubs probably need to take more responsibility to identify these people both at the time and after the fact, there is CCTV, every ticket has an associated person and seat so finding them won't be difficult. 

Our pitch looked to suffer some damage from the flare at the end, no idea why the guy didn't at least lift it off the field of play instead of just watching it and dropping his hard hat. I'd like to think the person responsible is identified and billed for the repairs 

The stewards when the first one was thrown and hit a guy (narrowly missing his kid) where telling everyone to leave it alone to burn out. Kids where coming down from the top of the stand and wiping the residue on their hands then faces from it, ignoring the stewards who just stopped trying after the first few did it. 

The attitude seems to be along the lines of kids will be kids, how can we do anything about it. What happens when someone actually gets seriously injured because of it? That's my worry with it all.