SNP's Next Permanent Manager 2024

[BFTD]

We tried this years ago, but pleasantries went out the window instead.

[Lex]

Swinney to confirm his candidacy today. His only potential opponent is Forbes but it seems likely a deal will be made between the two that will keep her from running.

in that event Swinney will be confirmed as the next leader on Monday.

[JS_FFC]

Forbes will be happy enough to let Swinney take one in the face at the general. I think she will still be leader one day. 

[houston_bud]

32 minutes ago, Lex said:

Swinney to confirm his candidacy today. His only potential opponent is Forbes but it seems likely a deal will be made between the two that will keep her from running.

in that event Swinney will be confirmed as the next leader on Monday.

From an SNP point of view, this is the most sensible thing. Avoid another leadership contest with folk tearing shreds of each other. Doesn't seem particularly forward thinking though, given Swinney is a previous (and poor) leader, who was wanting to step away from frontline politics. Someone in to stop the bleeding I guess.

I was surprised to read that Swinney was only 60, seems to have been around for forever. 

[HTG]

On 30/04/2024 at 22:34, Vietnam91 said:

The SNP are going to get a bloody nose because they've focused on infighting and fringe issues than competency. 

I'm no sure I agree with this. A huge part of their time in administration since the last elections was taken up by the pandemic. In that respect, their communication was pretty clear and consistent - much more aligned to the better world leaders and a mile away from the catastrofuck across the border. 

The "fringe" issues are focused on trans rights, net zero and the hate crime bill. Most of these are reasonable enough issues to tackle and were supported by more than just the SNP and Greens. Not the Tories obviously - they want the hate crime bill repealed despite 99% of it being introduced by them down south. But they'd oppose anything and everything. 

All of these issues are a matter of debate across the world - not just in Scotland. It should be perfectly reasonable to run an economy and do this stuff. But there's a massive culture war running just now and the right wing arseholes are shouting very loudly. 

I'm not saying they've been absolutely competent but they've not necessarily not been competent because other stuff is happening that's making a lot of noise. 

[CambieBud]

Swinney makes sense. When he was leader previously Scotland was a very different place. He has matured and is a much more slick and capable politician now. His priority should be to promote the next generation of SNP leaders from within. Nicola Sturgeon’s biggest mistake was unwittingly being perceived as a one woman party, due to her drive and undoubted strong personality. The result was a publicly perceived void when she quit.

[Lurkst]

14 minutes ago, CambieBud said:

Swinney makes sense. When he was leader previously Scotland was a very different place. He has matured and is a much more slick and capable politician now. 

100% agree. Last time around Swinney was up against pre-Iraq New Labour, with the SNP a relatively minor opposition party. Completely different proposition to today.

I think Swinney with Forbes as deputy would go down best with the electorate as a whole, like the previous Salmond/Sturgeon ticket did.

 

[orfc]

Hang on now, is just coronating a new first minister without the public getting a say not undemocratic? These "SNP" lot whoever they are seem to think so... 

https://www.snp.org/sunak-as-prime-minister-is-a-total-affront-to-democracy/

 

[CambieBud]

13 minutes ago, orfc said:

Hang on now, is just coronating a new first minister without the public getting a say not undemocratic? These "SNP" lot whoever they are seem to think so... 

https://www.snp.org/sunak-as-prime-minister-is-a-total-affront-to-democracy/

 

As you well know orfc, Holyrood is set up differently from Westminster. A government cannot just decide to call an election. 

Edited May 2 by CambieBud

[ICTChris]

I can't stand the "unelected First/Prime Minister" meme that seems to be trotted out more now.  We have a Parliamentary system.  Every party who has been in government in any part of the UK has changed leader at some point and not had an immediate general election - SNP when moving from Salmond to Sturgeon to Yousaf and now to Swinney or Forbes; Tories from Thatcher to Major and then Cameron to May to Johnson to Truss to Sunak; Labour going from Blair to Brown and even from Harold Wilson to Jim Callaghan if you want to go old school.

[GordonS]

On 30/04/2024 at 20:34, Vietnam91 said:

Lots of pressure for an appointment than a contest with the UKGE so close. The SNP are going to get a bloody nose because they've focused on infighting and fringe issues than competency. All political parties run out of steam and plagued by scandals when in government so maybe its what's needed for a bit of introspection and new talent.

Don't disagree but the bit about focussing on fringe issues is wrong. It's the media that does that. The proportion of actual parliamentary and government time spent on those things is tiny.

Here's one example - First Ministers' Questions last week was covered extensively in the media. If you watched, heard or read those reports you might think you know what they yelled at each other about. But here are all the topics that they covered after the ya-boo politics was over, brought up my MSPs of all parties: availability of medicines and the impact of Brexit, the 2030 GHG emissions target, making some environmental harms a criminal offence, freedom of movement in the EU for young people, the proposed Winchburgh train station, pay for care workers, pay for councillors (following a report recommending they get paid £24,500), funding for apprenticeships, funding for employability support, problems with the new restrictions on woodburning stoves, mental health services for young people in rural areas, the impact of Scottish Income Tax on migration and racial abuse in workplaces.

And that's in the most politicised, most confrontational slot in the week, on a highly politically charged day. 

https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report/search-what-was-said-in-parliament/meeting-of-parliament-25-04-2024?meeting=15816&iob=135018

Then there's the Scottish Government news releases. Around the announcement of the resignation of the First Minister they've published releases on proposed legislation banning touting tickets when we host Euro 2028, £500 million per year in Child Disability Payments, monthly GDP estimates, support for people injured at work, adding £80 million to the fund to purchase and upgrade unused homes to get homeless people out of temporary accommodation taking it to £600 million per year, the passing of the Children (Care and Justice) Bill, a cash-first approach for families with young children in food poverty, completion of the £49 million new deep-water terminal in Stornoway...

And that's in less than a week.

The media do a fkn shocking job of representing what actually goes on in the governance of our country. All of them, including the so-called quality press. Unless they get their news at source, even those who think they have a good grasp on current affairs usually don't.

Also, fringe issues are anything but fringe issues when they apply to you. It's a big country and we can fix lots of problems at once. 

[Dan Steele]

32 minutes ago, orfc said:

Hang on now, is just coronating a new first minister without the public getting a say not undemocratic? These "SNP" lot whoever they are seem to think so... 

https://www.snp.org/sunak-as-prime-minister-is-a-total-affront-to-democracy/

 

[scottsdad]

23 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I can't stand the "unelected First/Prime Minister" meme that seems to be trotted out more now.  We have a Parliamentary system.  Every party who has been in government in any part of the UK has changed leader at some point and not had an immediate general election - SNP when moving from Salmond to Sturgeon to Yousaf and now to Swinney or Forbes; Tories from Thatcher to Major and then Cameron to May to Johnson to Truss to Sunak; Labour going from Blair to Brown and even from Harold Wilson to Jim Callaghan if you want to go old school.

If we look at the general elections of 2015, 2017, 2019 in each case the Tories changed their leader after winning an election. Very unstable. 

[houston_bud]

21 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I can't stand the "unelected First/Prime Minister" meme that seems to be trotted out more now.  We have a Parliamentary system.  Every party who has been in government in any part of the UK has changed leader at some point and not had an immediate general election - SNP when moving from Salmond to Sturgeon to Yousaf and now to Swinney or Forbes; Tories from Thatcher to Major and then Cameron to May to Johnson to Truss to Sunak; Labour going from Blair to Brown and even from Harold Wilson to Jim Callaghan if you want to go old school.

I agree, parties are usually playing a bit of politics when they criticise others for it. I would caveat that by saying that there is a difference between changing PM/FM once in a Parliamentary term, and the farce we've seen with the Tories since Brexit. It's now a bit of a farce with the SNP too, but Yousaf, for all his faults, was at least trying to largely stick to the manifesto they'd been elected on. 

[Vietnam91]

1 hour ago, HTG said:

I'm no sure I agree with this. A huge part of their time in administration since the last elections was taken up by the pandemic. In that respect, their communication was pretty clear and consistent - much more aligned to the better world leaders and a mile away from the catastrofuck across the border. 

The "fringe" issues are focused on trans rights, net zero and the hate crime bill. Most of these are reasonable enough issues to tackle and were supported by more than just the SNP and Greens. Not the Tories obviously - they want the hate crime bill repealed despite 99% of it being introduced by them down south. But they'd oppose anything and everything. 

All of these issues are a matter of debate across the world - not just in Scotland. It should be perfectly reasonable to run an economy and do this stuff. But there's a massive culture war running just now and the right wing arseholes are shouting very loudly. 

I'm not saying they've been absolutely competent but they've not necessarily not been competent because other stuff is happening that's making a lot of noise. 

Was referring to their total time in power, to cite from the last election I'm unsure why that is a thing. People don't cite the Tories being in power down south from the last election cycle or even a change in PM, they use 2010. The SNP are fast approaching 20 years.

Also wasn't comparing governments and their effectiveness. I highlighted things from the eyes of an average voter, the people not fully engaged in the discourse or motivated nor wishing to look through the details of FMQ's then you'll see all this other stuff and assume that's the focus when for the vast majority the things that affect them and their lives are primarily the NHS, economy and education.

What I'm saying is if you need to carry 55% of an electorate with you to even justify pushing for indyref2 then how these people view the world and their perceptions are what is important. And that is what is currently reflected in the poor polling.

[HTG]

6 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

Was referring to their total time in power, to cite from the last election I'm unsure why that is a thing. People don't cite the Tories being in power down south from the last election cycle or even a change in PM, they use 2010. The SNP are fast approaching 20 years.

Also wasn't comparing governments and their effectiveness. I highlighted things from the eyes of an average voter, the people not fully engaged in the discourse or motivated nor wishing to look through the details of FMQ's then you'll see all this other stuff and assume that's the focus when for the vast majority the things that affect them and their lives are primarily the NHS, economy and education.

What I'm saying is if you need to carry 55% of an electorate with you to even justify pushing for indyref2 then how these people view the world and their perceptions are what is important. And that is what is currently reflected in the poor polling.

Certainly don't disagree that perception is key. Herein lies a problem for the indy movement - not just the SNP. The media is extremely hostile to the nationalist perspective and the only outlet to counter that has had to be set up specifically for that purpose. The National is pretty much viewed, correctly, as biased. The rest are getting away with pretending they are news outlets when it's blindingly obvious that the BBC, the Herald and of course the myriad of right wing rags report anything about Scotland in as negative a light as they possibly can.

[Vietnam91]

38 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Don't disagree but the bit about focussing on fringe issues is wrong. It's the media that does that. The proportion of actual parliamentary and government time spent on those things is tiny.

Here's one example - First Ministers' Questions last week was covered extensively in the media. If you watched, heard or read those reports you might think you know what they yelled at each other about. But here are all the topics that they covered after the ya-boo politics was over, brought up my MSPs of all parties: availability of medicines and the impact of Brexit, the 2030 GHG emissions target, making some environmental harms a criminal offence, freedom of movement in the EU for young people, the proposed Winchburgh train station, pay for care workers, pay for councillors (following a report recommending they get paid £24,500), funding for apprenticeships, funding for employability support, problems with the new restrictions on woodburning stoves, mental health services for young people in rural areas, the impact of Scottish Income Tax on migration and racial abuse in workplaces.

And that's in the most politicised, most confrontational slot in the week, on a highly politically charged day. 

https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report/search-what-was-said-in-parliament/meeting-of-parliament-25-04-2024?meeting=15816&iob=135018

Then there's the Scottish Government news releases. Around the announcement of the resignation of the First Minister they've published releases on proposed legislation banning touting tickets when we host Euro 2028, £500 million per year in Child Disability Payments, monthly GDP estimates, support for people injured at work, adding £80 million to the fund to purchase and upgrade unused homes to get homeless people out of temporary accommodation taking it to £600 million per year, the passing of the Children (Care and Justice) Bill, a cash-first approach for families with young children in food poverty, completion of the £49 million new deep-water terminal in Stornoway...

And that's in less than a week.

The media do a fkn shocking job of representing what actually goes on in the governance of our country. All of them, including the so-called quality press. Unless they get their news at source, even those who think they have a good grasp on current affairs usually don't.

Also, fringe issues are anything but fringe issues when they apply to you. It's a big country and we can fix lots of problems at once. 

A fine list, but you are politically engaged to find and cite all of that. How many of your neighbours, work colleagues, friends and family are as motivated?

The press always chase sensationalism, that's what drove newspaper purchases, viewers and now clicks. The vast majority of our population will not dig below the surface, they skim over what reaches it and often let that steer a view or opinion.

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, Vietnam91 said:

A fine list, but you are politically engaged to find and cite all of that. How many of your neighbours, work colleagues, friends and family are as motivated?

The press always chase sensationalism, that's what drove newspaper purchases, viewers and now clicks. The vast majority of our population will not dig below the surface, they skim over what reaches it and often let that steer a view or opinion.

Exactly. But don't blame the politicians or the parties, there's nothing they can do about the tsunami of b*llshit the media decide to throw at their customers. What are they supposed to do, not help minorities because shitrags and infants with microphones will imply that's the only work they ever do? It's jointly the fault of the media and those who buy, click or tune in.

I think we have much worse coverage than lots of countries, especially in Europe. They have rags too but their quality media is still quality and cares less about being boring. We're not a very mature society. Reading the good Irish newspapers is pretty sobering.

[Vietnam91]

12 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Exactly. But don't blame the politicians or the parties, there's nothing they can do about the tsunami of b*llshit the media decide to throw at their customers. What are they supposed to do, not help minorities because shitrags and infants with microphones will imply that's the only work they ever do? It's jointly the fault of the media and those who buy, click or tune in.

I think we have much worse coverage than lots of countries, especially in Europe. They have rags too but their quality media is still quality and cares less about being boring. We're not a very mature society. Reading the good Irish newspapers is pretty sobering.

Oh I feel I can blame the politicians for all the infighting, smear campaigns, scandals and naked ambition triumphing over what’s right.

[A Diamond For Me]

In Scotland a new FM - whether mid term or just after an election - is voted for by the parliament.  In the UK the new PM is appointed by the king.  Neither is elected directly, general election yea or nay.