EdiBairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said: Think you missing a key component here. No-one was really anti Hartley. No one was against him getting rid of players........because he was bringing in “fewer players, better quality”. No hindsight involved. That was the promise. The support have ZERO control over this. The BOD have absolute control over this. What could the BOD have done better? Applied oversight and governance. If they were questioning it, they were asking the wrong questions. The “better” bit is “prevent it from happening”. And yes, it’s achievable. Again, the BoD employed Paul Hartley to manage the football department of the club, which involves scouting and signing players. It would then be ludicrous for them to say 'you can't sign this guy from Morecambe' or 'we've signed this striker from Hearts for you'. The BoD assumed that Hartley and his team would have better ability to sign players than them. I can only imagine the uproar on here if it came out that they had stopped him from signing the players he wanted as part of some 'oversight procedure'. Edited August 31, 2018 by EdiBairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Back Post Misses Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Who expressed an interest in the job? You are really struggling if you are taking a “no comment” to mean expressing an interest. Ok, you believe what you wish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeStreetWalker Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, NewBornBairn said: Really? Despite knowing he's a lazy git who doesn't even show up for training? It's going to be an absolute slog for the rest of the season with players working their socks off. Latapy doesn't seem to be the type that likes hard work. One of the best footballing brains ever to have pulled on a Falkirk jersey. He saw passes that nobody else did and was a genius. Tactically he would be a class above everybody else in the league. You make a fair point but he has a point to prove and a good number 2 beside him would negate that doubt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmember Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Jimmy Mac please the holiday money is on it at 3/1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 One of the best footballing brains ever to have pulled on a Falkirk jersey. He saw passes that nobody else did and was a genius. Tactically he would be a class above everybody else in the league. You make a fair point but he has a point to prove and a good number 2 beside him would negate that doubt.Those two things dont neccesarily go hand in hand tbh. He cant teach anyone how to be Russell Latapy. His skill set was not learned. There are some players who succeed based on being gifted, the most ttpical.of ehich being that type of midfielder who just sees it all differently. That doesnt equate to tactical nous IMO -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bainsfordbairn said: That line gets spun quite a lot on message boards. To me it misses the point. Unless there is a "football person" on the BOD - say a Director Of Football with an Alex Smith background - then I suspect that most football boards will have little knowledge of the game. By that I mean none of their members will have played professionally or have coaching badges. They'll be made up of successful business people rather than ex-footballers. That being the case, they're responsible for picking a manager and setting his budget. After that they have to leave the football side up to him. IMO anyway, and I'd apply that line of thinking to all boards everywhere. If you consider Falkirk specifically, then what should our BOD have done differently in relation to our last two managers? "Oversight and governance" is too vague a phrase for me. I'm interested in the specifics of where you think they failed when it came to Hartley and Houston. There are no guarantees, but oversight and governance in a football club where the board accept they have no expertise (now there’s a first bit of governance), would dictate that as in any other line of business, they need the good old due diligence factor. Their interview for a manager should give them the football experience bit that would cover training, setting up the team and so forth, but a mass overhaul such as we have witnessed means something hugely different from just letting the manager and a CEO (equally inexperienced) embark on such project with no successful precedent on their CV to support it. From that position, the board would have done well to either a) phase the project to bring in incremental changes that could be evaluated in terms of the subjective bit (player quality), and the objective bit (results). As I said previously, an as hoc hire could have carried out the first part for them. Once sanctioned, it seems to have been far too easy for Hartley and CC to do as they pleased with no further checks needed until it was way too late in the day. To say “appoint a manager, and then step back” is ok for what is considered steady state (changing two or three players season on season), but it’s not OK when it’s a 16 player total transformation. New projects, plans and ideas are ten a penny. It’s the implementation that is truly difficult, and in this case, everyone inside the club got carried along with it. I still say the project can work, but shutting our eyes and hoping for the best shouldn’t form part of it. There was mountains of management, and precious little leadership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMBairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Think you missing a key component here. No-one was really anti Hartley. No one was against him getting rid of players........because he was bringing in “fewer players, better quality”. No hindsight involved. That was the promise. The support have ZERO control over this. The BOD have absolute control over this. What could the BOD have done better? Applied oversight and governance. If they were questioning it, they were asking the wrong questions. The “better” bit is “prevent it from happening”. And yes, it’s achievable.Equally though if Hartley had left the club 6 weeks ago, claiming the board were getting involved and stopping him making the signings he wanted because they didn't think they were good enough people would have been going mental about non football men interfering too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, EdiBairn said: Again, the BoD employed Paul Hartley to manage the football department of the club, which involves scouting and signing players. It would then be ludicrous for them to say 'you can't sign this guy from Morecambe' or 'we've signed this striker from Hearts for you'. The BoD assumed that Hartley and his team would have better ability to sign players than them. I can only imagine the uproar on here if it came out that they had stopped him from signing the players he wanted as part of some 'oversight procedure'. What we embarked on this season was wildly different. The outcome has proven how badly it could turn out. The BoD needed a 3rd party to act for them, and that should have formed part of the project. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMBairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Have you not been to a cup final and the Premiership play off final recently?And lost both in devastating fashion. What's your point caller? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, GMBairn said: 1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said: Think you missing a key component here. No-one was really anti Hartley. No one was against him getting rid of players........because he was bringing in “fewer players, better quality”. No hindsight involved. That was the promise. The support have ZERO control over this. The BOD have absolute control over this. What could the BOD have done better? Applied oversight and governance. If they were questioning it, they were asking the wrong questions. The “better” bit is “prevent it from happening”. And yes, it’s achievable. Equally though if Hartley had left the club 6 weeks ago, claiming the board were getting involved and stopping him making the signings he wanted because they didn't think they were good enough people would have been going mental about non football men interfering too much. Aaaargh! That’s why the board needed a 3rd party to act for them in a project of this scale and breadth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, GMBairn said: 53 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Have you not been to a cup final and the Premiership play off final recently? And lost both in devastating fashion. What's your point caller? That's hardly a decline is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMBairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 That's hardly a decline is it?Unless you consider not getting promoted back to the premier league and not winning cups as an improvement it's neutral at best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 So not a decline then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faedenny Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 twitter refresh, twitter refresh twitter refresh, p and b, twitter refresh, p and b, some work, p and b, twitter refresh....... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinatoon Bairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Anyone got any suggestions for a new avatar? Was going to wait for our first win but need to get this gimp gone asap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Chinatoon Bairn said: Anyone got any suggestions for a new avatar? Was going to wait for our first win but need to get this gimp gone asap. Keep it simple and go with the Steeple thats what i did 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeBairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, TheScarf said: Have you not been to a cup final and the Premiership play off final recently? Not a decline, but losing both while stagnating is no success either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Chinatoon Bairn said: Anyone got any suggestions for a new avatar? Was going to wait for our first win but need to get this gimp gone asap. How about the endless void of space? Or maybe Bart Simpson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, TheScarf said: So not a decline then. Wait, what? Ten years ago we were established in the SPL and got to a cup final. Now we're struggling in the Championship and got to a cup final. ... you don't think that's a decline? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bainsfordbairn Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, EdiBairn said: Again, the BoD employed Paul Hartley to manage the football department of the club, which involves scouting and signing players. It would then be ludicrous for them to say 'you can't sign this guy from Morecambe' or 'we've signed this striker from Hearts for you'. The BoD assumed that Hartley and his team would have better ability to sign players than them. I can only imagine the uproar on here if it came out that they had stopped him from signing the players he wanted as part of some 'oversight procedure'. EdiBairn - I'm starting to like you. Now that you've dropped your three campaigns I'm agreeing with a lot of what you post. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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