The Falkirk FC Thread

[Proudtobeabairn]

7 hours ago, Dave McInally said:

Problem is that HMRC won’t give a definitive answer on specifics. They can advise on best practice only so you might still be at risk even with advice. 

Spoke to Foundation at Hearts about it and they are very conscious about making themselves open to VAT liability. Their benefits are money can’t buy type ventures. 

That’s the reason why Forever Falkirk has only the ST benefit. If they had the pay monthly costs less than what it costs for a year then that could draw the attention of the taxman. It’s fine margins.

1876 club also has VAT attributed despite only having a draw similar to FSS. 

The fine lines likely exist in how it’s advertised to members etc but does need to be treaded on carefully as might be able to take retrospective action too if deemed liable. 
 

 

No reason FSS benefits couldn't also be experience rather than monetary value.  E.g a vote on shirt design each year from 4-5 options but only FSS members eligible, the chance to win a manager/player visit to a school,  win a chance to travel on the team bus etc etc

[Bairnardo]

59 minutes ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

No reason FSS benefits couldn't also be experience rather than monetary value.  E.g a vote on shirt design each year from 4-5 options but only FSS members eligible, the chance to win a manager/player visit to a school,  win a chance to travel on the team bus etc etc

2 hours in a hot tub suspended from the ceiling in the Brockville Bar IMO

ETA.... 6 hour session on Call of Duty with Finn Yeats, Cuddle aff Clubber Lang.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bairnardo

[Springfield]

Sun reporting that there could be an SPFL meeting early new year to decide to ban plastic pitches for new season. If true it looks like Livi will be thrown to the lions unless they receive in their words huge financial help for changing to grass. Throws up so many scenario’s for who would gain or lose out.
Again if the story is true, the implications for anyone in the championship with plastic that are fortunate to maybe get a promotion slot, be refused entry….

[Balde Bairn]

23 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Sun reporting that there could be an SPFL meeting early new year to decide to ban plastic pitches for new season. If true it looks like Livi will be thrown to the lions unless they receive in their words huge financial help for changing to grass. Throws up so many scenario’s for who would gain or lose out.
Again if the story is true, the implications for anyone in the championship with plastic that are fortunate to maybe get a promotion slot, be refused entry….

I think the decision to ban plastic pitches in the premiership would not benefit the majority of Scottish clubs. As usual, the decision would be made just to benefit the bigot brothers. If the Old Firm are so desperate to get rid of Astro then they should maybe look at what the top clubs in Holland do. Those clubs use their money from European football to support smaller clubs in the Eredivise to ensure they can afford grass pitches. 

[HopeStreetWalker]

4 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said:

What is daft is the ridiculous Goldie ego trip gibberish you ended your post with.

So you don't think the stadium mentioned is daft - at least we are getting somewhere.

So that leaves you with the position that Gildie did not influence the main stand design.

It was well discussed in the process of the design of the new stadium that Goldie wanted a statement grandstand. The council were in the driving seat and what they wanted they got such as the parking which is a nice little earner creaming the fans for their cash every home game. They must have made a fortune from that and the club never see a coin.

 

 

 

[Bairn to Believe]

3 hours ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

No reason FSS benefits couldn't also be experience rather than monetary value.  E.g a vote on shirt design each year from 4-5 options but only FSS members eligible, the chance to win a manager/player visit to a school,  win a chance to travel on the team bus etc etc

The majority are non financial. A chance to vote on a kit is included (although it wont be every year). The VAT issue has been discussed with an accountant. Entry into a comp to hand over POTM award also, Exclusive access to FSS events and Early access to some club events. 

[Rugster]

I changed from PayPal to the new tickets thing on Friday but I didn’t get the email update on Sunday night whereas I always got them previously. Anyone else in this boat? Any committee members on here who can help?

[Bainsfordbairn]

16 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

So that leaves you with the position that Gildie did not influence the main stand design.

It was well discussed in the process of the design of the new stadium that Goldie wanted a statement grandstand. The council were in the driving seat and what they wanted they got such as the parking which is a nice little earner creaming the fans for their cash every home game. They must have made a fortune from that and the club never see a coin.

 

I'll ignore the Goldie stuff because I have no way of knowing, other than contacting some of the directors who were there at the time. And it's not important enough to waste enough any time on. It may have been covered in Martin Ritchie's book if anyone bought it. I didn't. 

As for the car park though..... 

The club not the council sell the car parking permits. For drive-ups on matchday, the security staff charge entry. Those staff are working for the club not the council. 

So the club see every single coin. 

I assume we don't hand over any of it. If you believe otherwise, feel free to back up your claims by providing evidence from a podcast, an AGM question or some other reputable source. 

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Bairn to Believe said:

The majority are non financial. A chance to vote on a kit is included (although it wont be every year). The VAT issue has been discussed with an accountant. Entry into a comp to hand over POTM award also, Exclusive access to FSS events and Early access to some club events. 

Do you mind if I ask what the advice said and what would prevent FSS from being subject to VAT on benefits? Just intrigued to know as we weren’t shared club advice at the time but this was advice I got in March from someone who worked in the VAT office regarding the FF scheme’s benefit regarding STs. Is a bit of a mindfield but as I said FoH are very cautious to produce or advertise any benefits that may force them to pay VAT. 

If the club offer the terms to FSS members that should be OK as long as they're not trying to avoid VAT on season tickets as a result.

As a separate entity the donations to FSS should continue to be outside the scope of VAT. Things would get complicated if FSS collected ticket money for the club or the club collected donations for the FSS so that should be avoided if possible.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Dave McInally

[Bairn to Believe]

56 minutes ago, Dave McInally said:

Do you mind if I ask what the advice said and what would prevent FSS from being subject to VAT on benefits? Just intrigued to know as we weren’t shared club advice at the time but this was advice I got in March from someone who worked in the VAT office regarding the FF scheme’s benefit regarding STs. Is a bit of a mindfield but as I said FoH are very cautious to produce or advertise any benefits that may force them to pay VAT. 

If the club offer the terms to FSS members that should be OK as long as they're not trying to avoid VAT on season tickets as a result.

As a separate entity the donations to FSS should continue to be outside the scope of VAT. Things would get complicated if FSS collected ticket money for the club or the club collected donations for the FSS so that should be avoided if possible.

The advice we were given is similar to what you have been given previously. We were advised to be careful about how it is advertised and worded. That the extent of my knowledge on the subject. 
 

 

[LatapyBairn.]

2 hours ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

So you don't think the stadium mentioned is daft - at least we are getting somewhere.

So that leaves you with the position that Gildie did not influence the main stand design.

It was well discussed in the process of the design of the new stadium that Goldie wanted a statement grandstand. The council were in the driving seat and what they wanted they got such as the parking which is a nice little earner creaming the fans for their cash every home game. They must have made a fortune from that and the club never see a coin.

 

 

 

What are you on about now? The council don’t make a penny from match day parking, this is completely the clubs domain and always has been. Really wish you would stop just making shit up when it comes to either the stadium or the council! 

[GunnerBairn]

11 hours ago, Springfield said:

Lost his way at the club, but what a player. Have him back in a minute.

Interesting story I heard about Sibbs, granted completely second or third hand knowledge of what may (or may not) be true. The story goes that Sibbs was on his summer holidays during the close season and had his mobile switched off throughout for some privacy. Little did he know that Hartley sent messages to all players (including those whose contracts had just ended) asking for an immediate ‘same day’ response ‘Yes or No’ if they wanted to be part of his plans at Falkirk. Sibbs got the message a couple of days later (way too late) when he switched his phone on, by which time Hartley had already told players to GTF and leave. Sibbs was gutted and seemingly would have responded ‘Yes’. Guess we’ll never know.

 

 

 

[Springfield]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBairn said:

Interesting story I heard about Sibbs, granted completely second or third hand knowledge of what may (or may not) be true. The story goes that Sibbs was on his summer holidays during the close season and had his mobile switched off throughout for some privacy. Little did he know that Hartley sent messages to all players (including those whose contracts had just ended) asking for an immediate ‘same day’ response ‘Yes or No’ if they wanted to be part of his plans at Falkirk. Sibbs got the message a couple of days later (way too late) when he switched his phone on, by which time Hartley had already told players to GTF and leave. Sibbs was gutted and seemingly would have responded ‘Yes’. Guess we’ll never know.

 

 

 

Absolutely no idea if your information is factual as you’ve intimated. From my sources then within the club, he was offered money we couldn’t look at, and although he loved his time here, it was simply time to move on. 
On his game he was simply brilliant to watch, one turn and he could take out the opposition midfield. With all respect to the guy, the only player I’ve seen anywhere close to his skill set is Miller, who if we can keep fit and injury free, will be key to where we end our season.

[Proudtobeabairn]

45 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Absolutely no idea if your information is factual as you’ve intimated. From my sources then within the club, he was offered money we couldn’t look at, and although he loved his time here, it was simply time to move on. 
On his game he was simply brilliant to watch, one turn and he could take out the opposition midfield. With all respect to the guy, the only player I’ve seen anywhere close to his skill set is Miller, who if we can keep fit and injury free, will be key to where we end our season.

This sounds more likely.  Difficult to believe anyone his age (or any age) has their phone switched off for days at a time.  

[Bainsfordbairn]

1 hour ago, GunnerBairn said:

Interesting story I heard about Sibbs, granted completely second or third hand knowledge of what may (or may not) be true. The story goes that Sibbs was on his summer holidays during the close season and had his mobile switched off throughout for some privacy. Little did he know that Hartley sent messages to all players (including those whose contracts had just ended) asking for an immediate ‘same day’ response ‘Yes or No’ if they wanted to be part of his plans at Falkirk. Sibbs got the message a couple of days later (way too late) when he switched his phone on, by which time Hartley had already told players to GTF and leave. Sibbs was gutted and seemingly would have responded ‘Yes’. Guess we’ll never know.

I can probably clear that one up, given that it’s old news now. The story is false.

Sibbalds contract was up in the summer of 2017. He was 22, had just won player of the year and had seen the likes of McGrandles, Fulton, Wallace & Kingsley move on to better things. Not unreasonably, he wanted to do the same. But there was no interest in him from anywhere that he wanted to go. I think there was an offer from Sweden which didn't appeal and he went on trial at Luton, but no offer was made. Any buying club would have had to pay us compensation. 

In the end his best option was to sign another contract at Falkirk. It was a one year deal with a one year option. That option lay with the club. He struggled at first in 17/18, as many of our players did, but he kicked on after Hartley arrived and finished the season as one of our better players. 

In the summer of 2018 the club could have compelled him to stay another year, but he preferred to leave and Hartley didn’t want anyone at FFC who wasn't fully committed.

There were stories being made online at the time that the club had screwed up the paperwork and our option had lapsed. That wasn't true. The football admin person at the time was a close friend of mine and he vehemently denied it, and he was backed up by several directors and staff whom I spoke to afterwards.

He simply got an offer which gave him a chance to showcase his talents on a bigger stage. And undoubtedly for more money. He would have been a fool to refuse, even though he’s a genuine Falkirk fan. Eventually the day comes when you have to put your own interests first, just as Crunchie did when he signed for Chelsea.

[Shodwall cat]

We should've enforced the option and we might never have been relegated. Crazy letting him go for nothing when you have an option on the table. Another poor decision of many at the time.

[LauriestonBairn]

1 hour ago, Bainsfordbairn said:

I can probably clear that one up, given that it’s old news now. The story is false.

Sibbalds contract was up in the summer of 2017. He was 22, had just won player of the year and had seen the likes of McGrandles, Fulton, Wallace & Kingsley move on to better things. Not unreasonably, he wanted to do the same. But there was no interest in him from anywhere that he wanted to go. I think there was an offer from Sweden which didn't appeal and he went on trial at Luton, but no offer was made. Any buying club would have had to pay us compensation. 

In the end his best option was to sign another contract at Falkirk. It was a one year deal with a one year option. That option lay with the club. He struggled at first in 17/18, as many of our players did, but he kicked on after Hartley arrived and finished the season as one of our better players. 

In the summer of 2018 the club could have compelled him to stay another year, but he preferred to leave and Hartley didn’t want anyone at FFC who wasn't fully committed.

There were stories being made online at the time that the club had screwed up the paperwork and our option had lapsed. That wasn't true. The football admin person at the time was a close friend of mine and he vehemently denied it, and he was backed up by several directors and staff whom I spoke to afterwards.

He simply got an offer which gave him a chance to showcase his talents on a bigger stage. And undoubtedly for more money. He would have been a fool to refuse, even though he’s a genuine Falkirk fan. Eventually the day comes when you have to put your own interests first, just as Crunchie did when he signed for Chelsea.

I heard it was the councils fault and they took a share of his earnings from Livi

[Bainsfordbairn]

14 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

We should've enforced the option and we might never have been relegated. Crazy letting him go for nothing when you have an option on the table. Another poor decision of many at the time.

Most managers won't keep a player who'ld rather be elsewhere. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Falkirk player post-Bosman who was forced to see out their contract against their wishes.

Maybe in the last six months of their contract if they're considered useful injury cover, such as Liam Craig when Martin Rennie was allegedly interested. But not for a first team player with a year still to go. 

[Springfield]

Has anyone got any information when the Cove re-arranged game will take place, will the club wait and see how we fair in the cup, before arrangements are made. No idea on the protocol for this.

[Springfield]

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

Has anyone got any information when the Cove re-arranged game will take place, will the club wait and see how we fair in the cup, before arrangements are made. No idea on the protocol for this.

Just posted 9th January