HanoMaSano Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 How much less will SKY actually offer ? I can't see them taking too much of the total amount which could equate to the all the other clubs being given maybe > < 20% less than they would with the rankers not there . So clubs losing vast amounts or 7 figures is fictional. Nobody knows what Sky would actually offer for a Rangerless SPL, however if this was to come to pass the team which would lose the most money by far would be Celtic. Without their bum chums to back them up, the unfair revenue split in the SPL would be at an end. If you extend the LINEAR increase in money which happens from 4th - 12th in the SPL you could have every team from 4th - 12th getting the EXACT SAME amount of money as they did this year (assuming that everybody finishes 1 place higher than would have been the case with Rangers in the League) with as much as a 19% drop in overall revenue. Using this season as an example, the below figures show what could happen with a 19% drop in overall prize money (I have used £10,000,000 as the baseline. I know this doesn't reflect the real figures but makes the numbers easier! Also assumed each team from 3rd down finishing 1 place higher which I also know would not necessarily be the case but again, good for a comparison) ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£... ------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|17.00|1,700,000 2..|Rangers......|15.00|1,500,000 3..|Motherwell...|09.50|950,000 4..|Dundee Utd...|08.50|850,000 5..|Hearts.......|08.00|800,000 6..|St Johnstone.|07.50|750,000 7..|Kilmarnock...|07.00|700,000 8..|St Mirren....|06.50|650,000 9..|Aberdeen.....|06.00|600,000 10.|Inverness CT.|05.50|550,000 11.|Hibernian....|05.00|500,000 12.|Dunfermline..|04.50|450,000 SFL|Ross County..|2 Jeggies and a Hubba Bubba Total = £10,000,000 ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£...| +/- -------------------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|11.73|950,000| -£750,000 2..|Motherwell...|11.11|900,000| -£50,000 3..|Dundee Utd...|10.49|850,000| No Change 4..|Hearts.......|09.88|800,000| No Change 5..|St Johnstone.|09.26|750,000| No Change 6..|Kilmarnock...|08.64|700,000| No Change 7..|St Mirren....|08.02|650,000| No Change 8..|Aberdeen.....|07.41|600,000| No Change 9..|Inverness CT.|06.79|550,000| No Change 10.|Hibernian....|06.17|500,000| No Change 11.|Dunfermline..|05.56|450,000| No Change 12.|Ross County..|04.94|400,000| +Sh!t Load Total = £8,100,000 *Note these percentages are rounded, the actual would be 12th starting at 4.938271604938271604938271604938 % with inriments of 0.617283950617283950617283950617 % per place. You estimated a 20% drop in tv money which isn't far off this example of 19%. So if 20% was the fall off in TV revenue the vast majority of the SPL would be barely affected. Even if the new tv deal was to be reduced by a greater margin, Celtic would be the team losing the most. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Celtic won the league easy because their main rivals had a 10 point deduction and went into administration as the 2 clubs were neck and neck in the title race and their wage bill is more than 10 times higher than the 3rd placed club as a result of the exploitation of sectarianism and match officials were scared to book their players and give fouls against them due to the sectarian intimdation put on them by the club. And even then they still managed to only limp home, get stuffed in Europe at the first hurdle twice and get punped out of the cups by Kilmarnock & Hearts ! What a disaster of a season for Celtic. Pointing & laughing at you! Hod on ! You forgot to mention anything about cashing in on sectarianism and ho......Oh wait ,you did, thought you where slipping there 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasda Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Nobody knows what Sky would actually offer for a Rangerless SPL, however if this was to come to pass the team which would lose the most money by far would be Celtic. Without their bum chums to back them up, the unfair revenue split in the SPL would be at an end. If you extend the LINEAR increase in money which happens from 4th - 12th in the SPL you could have every team from 4th - 12th getting the EXACT SAME amount of money as they did this year (assuming that everybody finishes 1 place higher than would have been the case with Rangers in the League) with as much as a 19% drop in overall revenue. Good analysis! One offshoot of this RFC in admin thing is that a lot of people are having a hard look at the usual myths churned out around our game. Even last night and today the reporting on the Beeb around the SFA appeal carries all the usual sh*te about "needing" a strong Rangers. Fans of non OF clubs are finally wakenening up to the fact that although the OF generate a significant amount of money NONE of it goes outside the OF, all we get is the crumbs from the table if we behave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Nobody knows what Sky would actually offer for a Rangerless SPL, however if this was to come to pass the team which would lose the most money by far would be Celtic. Without their bum chums to back them up, the unfair revenue split in the SPL would be at an end. If you extend the LINEAR increase in money which happens from 4th - 12th in the SPL you could have every team from 4th - 12th getting the EXACT SAME amount of money as they did this year (assuming that everybody finishes 1 place higher than would have been the case with Rangers in the League) with as much as a 19% drop in overall revenue. Using this season as an example, the below figures show what could happen with a 19% drop in overall prize money (I have used £10,000,000 as the baseline. I know this doesn't reflect the real figures but makes the numbers easier! Also assumed each team from 3rd down finishing 1 place higher which I also know would not necessarily be the case but again, good for a comparison) ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£... ------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|17.00|1,700,000 2..|Rangers......|15.00|1,500,000 3..|Motherwell...|09.50|950,000 4..|Dundee Utd...|08.50|850,000 5..|Hearts.......|08.00|800,000 6..|St Johnstone.|07.50|750,000 7..|Kilmarnock...|07.00|700,000 8..|St Mirren....|06.50|650,000 9..|Aberdeen.....|06.00|600,000 10.|Inverness CT.|05.50|550,000 11.|Hibernian....|05.00|500,000 12.|Dunfermline..|04.50|450,000 SFL|Ross County..|2 Jeggies and a Hubba Bubba Total = £10,000,000 ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£...| +/- -------------------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|11.73|950,000| -£750,000 2..|Motherwell...|11.11|900,000| -£50,000 3..|Dundee Utd...|10.49|850,000| No Change 4..|Hearts.......|09.88|800,000| No Change 5..|St Johnstone.|09.26|750,000| No Change 6..|Kilmarnock...|08.64|700,000| No Change 7..|St Mirren....|08.02|650,000| No Change 8..|Aberdeen.....|07.41|600,000| No Change 9..|Inverness CT.|06.79|550,000| No Change 10.|Hibernian....|06.17|500,000| No Change 11.|Dunfermline..|05.56|450,000| No Change 12.|Ross County..|04.94|400,000| +Sh!t Load Total = £8,100,000 *Note these percentages are rounded, the actual would be 12th starting at 4.938271604938271604938271604938 % with inriments of 0.617283950617283950617283950617 % per place. You estimated a 20% drop in tv money which isn't far off this example of 19%. So if 20% was the fall off in TV revenue the vast majority of the SPL would be barely affected. Even if the new tv deal was to be reduced by a greater margin, Celtic would be the team losing the most. The best post on this thread yet. The money drop is a myth for all bar Celtic! In time, with a more competetive and improved product through the ability of diddies to produce and hang onto young talented players, the TV revenue would rise again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monrovianmonk Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 But only 57 names as some numbers are not attributed. Still, even 57 seems OTT. With no reserve league, what in the hell do the vast majority of these guys do every week??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Good analysis! One offshoot of this RFC in admin thing is that a lot of people are having a hard look at the usual myths churned out around our game. Even last night and today the reporting on the Beeb around the SFA appeal carries all the usual sh*te about "needing" a strong Rangers. Fans of non OF clubs are finally wakenening up to the fact that although the OF generate a significant amount of money NONE of it goes outside the OF, all we get is the crumbs from the table if we behave. That's how capitalism works you commie! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 With no reserve league, what in the hell do the vast majority of these guys do every week??? Shred the EBT documents? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double0pie Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 With no reserve league, what in the hell do the vast majority of these guys do every week??? Roughly about the same as half the first team. Hee haw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) With no reserve league, what in the hell do the vast majority of these guys do every week??? ## Ah, I see Jacksgranada got there first.. Edited May 16, 2012 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasda Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 That's how capitalism works you commie! Good point you almost made. Capitalism does indeed favour cartels/duopolys in the short term but not in the long term. The benefits are not sustainable even for the cartel members (lack of competitive edge, customer dissatisfaction etc.) not to mention the suppression of new entrenepeurial investment. The cartel SPL doesn't work for anybody including the OF. If you want to get political you might want to swot up a wee bit first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirondistNYC Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 1337169122[/url]' post='6242644']Nobody knows what Sky would actually offer for a Rangerless SPL, however if this was to come to pass the team which would lose the most money by far would be Celtic. Without their bum chums to back them up, the unfair revenue split in the SPL would be at an end. If you extend the LINEAR increase in money which happens from 4th - 12th in the SPL you could have every team from 4th - 12th getting the EXACT SAME amount of money as they did this year (assuming that everybody finishes 1 place higher than would have been the case with Rangers in the League) with as much as a 19% drop in overall revenue. Using this season as an example, the below figures show what could happen with a 19% drop in overall prize money (I have used £10,000,000 as the baseline. I know this doesn't reflect the real figures but makes the numbers easier! Also assumed each team from 3rd down finishing 1 place higher which I also know would not necessarily be the case but again, good for a comparison) ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£... ------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|17.00|1,700,000 2..|Rangers......|15.00|1,500,000 3..|Motherwell...|09.50|950,000 4..|Dundee Utd...|08.50|850,000 5..|Hearts.......|08.00|800,000 6..|St Johnstone.|07.50|750,000 7..|Kilmarnock...|07.00|700,000 8..|St Mirren....|06.50|650,000 9..|Aberdeen.....|06.00|600,000 10.|Inverness CT.|05.50|550,000 11.|Hibernian....|05.00|500,000 12.|Dunfermline..|04.50|450,000 SFL|Ross County..|2 Jeggies and a Hubba Bubba Total = £10,000,000 ...|TEAM.........|..%..|...£...| +/- -------------------------------------------- 1..|Celtic.......|11.73|950,000| -£750,000 2..|Motherwell...|11.11|900,000| -£50,000 3..|Dundee Utd...|10.49|850,000| No Change 4..|Hearts.......|09.88|800,000| No Change 5..|St Johnstone.|09.26|750,000| No Change 6..|Kilmarnock...|08.64|700,000| No Change 7..|St Mirren....|08.02|650,000| No Change 8..|Aberdeen.....|07.41|600,000| No Change 9..|Inverness CT.|06.79|550,000| No Change 10.|Hibernian....|06.17|500,000| No Change 11.|Dunfermline..|05.56|450,000| No Change 12.|Ross County..|04.94|400,000| +Sh!t Load Total = £8,100,000 *Note these percentages are rounded, the actual would be 12th starting at 4.938271604938271604938271604938 % with inriments of 0.617283950617283950617283950617 % per place. You estimated a 20% drop in tv money which isn't far off this example of 19%. So if 20% was the fall off in TV revenue the vast majority of the SPL would be barely affected. Even if the new tv deal was to be reduced by a greater margin, Celtic would be the team losing the most. I'm trusting your math, but this demonstrates exactly why the Sky situation shouldn't be critical for Celtics decision making and why Celtic should be falling over themselves to make it clear that be way or another they favor a more equitable split. £750K is by no means trivial (particularly applied to wages rather than misleading headline transfer fees) but its not catastrophic given Celtics turn over - things like the currently ongoing clearout of squad players would make a sizeable dent in a figure like this, for example. The justification for the skew of the split was always European competitiveness. With the almost geometric rapid decline of SPL TV money relative to other European leagues its hard to maintain tht justification. £750K would neither purchase nor sweeten the wages enough to put a player on the pitch who would get us past the Sions (let alone the Udineses) of the world. As Rangers situation demonstrates, having no one like you and not caring is not a good position to be in. Putting aside the morals, endorsing a fairer system openly in exchange for some goodwill and removing a perpetual irritant makes some business sense. This is, however, one of the situations where being a PLC is a hindrance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Celtic won the league easy because their main rivals had a 10 point deduction and went into administration as the 2 clubs were neck and neck in the title race and their wage bill is more than 10 times higher than the 3rd placed club as a result of the exploitation of sectarianism and match officials were scared to book their players and give fouls against them due to the sectarian intimdation put on them by the club. And even then they still managed to only limp home, get stuffed in Europe at the first hurdle twice and get punped out of the cups by Kilmarnock & Hearts ! What a disaster of a season for Celtic. Pointing & laughing at you! When Rangers went into administration we weren't neck and neck. We were ahead Limped home we lost once in 20 odd games before the title was sealed and that was to Rangers Oh and I almost forgot Disastrous? Nah mate just Champions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The squad stuff is a bit of an exaggeration. A lot of those folk listed will be part of the U19s or below. I've pointed out on a few occasions that they managed to avoid redundancies by emotionally blackmailing the players and coaching staff into taking a paycut. That still relied on the goodwill of the remaining players. That goodwill may not have existed had they just turned up and chucked 20 fringe and U19 players. I'm guessing the overall saving would have been the same either way, but the way they went about it allowed them to secure the extra income from the 2nd place finish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 There's ONLY 50 odd players in their squad. and 7 normal ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Good point you almost made. Capitalism does indeed favour cartels/duopolys in the short term but not in the long term. The benefits are not sustainable even for the cartel members (lack of competitive edge, customer dissatisfaction etc.) not to mention the suppression of new entrenepeurial investment. The cartel SPL doesn't work for anybody including the OF. If you want to get political you might want to swot up a wee bit first. If you want to get po-faced you did a good job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 The negative effect of a visit from the old firm can be shown in the fall in the St Johnstone support on Sunday. Thanks to the clubs official twitter we know that there were 3860 Saints fans at the game against Dundee United on the 21st of April. The club did not release a tweet on the crowd on Sunday but as the Rangers support were in both the North and Ormond stands which were full and had at least 500 in the main stand it looks like only around 2200 Saints fans went to this game, a game in which we could have qualified for Europe. So Rangers come to town and around 45% of the fans who were at the last home game decide to stay away! Does this happen all over the country. if the away supports were to boycott would the home attendances go up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasda Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 If you want to get po-faced you did a good job. Now that's a good point, I'll give you that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza1910 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 That size of squad after admin is just a joke. Everyone else enjoyed it when Dundee had to axe half their staff, and even I was intrigued who would stay and go. Got rid of some deadwood, notably the managers, and we had a great season after that too. Seems they are terrified to admit that Rangers are in trouble by axing 20 or 30 players. And they are costing the club big time with their weakness. Never heard of administrators behaving like this. Well, they can't put it off much longer. Heads will roll. Can't wait! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Celtic won the league easy because their main rivals had a 10 point deduction and went into administration as the 2 clubs were neck and neck in the title race and their wage bill is more than 10 times higher than the 3rd placed club as a result of the exploitation of sectarianism and match officials were scared to book their players and give fouls against them due to the sectarian intimdation put on them by the club. And even then they still managed to only limp home, get stuffed in Europe at the first hurdle twice and get punped out of the cups by Kilmarnock & Hearts ! What a disaster of a season for Celtic. Pointing & laughing at you! There are teenage girls shouting and screaming at the top of their lungs outside Glasgow Central on Saturdays that are less desperate and less obvious attention whores than you. The negative effect of a visit from the old firm can be shown in the fall in the St Johnstone support on Sunday. Thanks to the clubs official twitter we know that there were 3860 Saints fans at the game against Dundee United on the 21st of April. The club did not release a tweet on the crowd on Sunday but as the Rangers support were in both the North and Ormond stands which were full and had at least 500 in the main stand it looks like only around 2200 Saints fans went to this game, a game in which we could have qualified for Europe. So Rangers come to town and around 45% of the fans who were at the last home game decide to stay away! Does this happen all over the country. if the away supports were to boycott would the home attendances go up? This is it. The simple truth is parents are reluctant to take their children to games if the Old Firm are there, because of the hate and bile that comes with them - and because of the very real fear of their children getting hurt. And it's the people with kids that spend an absolute fortune in the club shop, club catering, etc - the very people they don't want scared away on match days because quite aside from the 'future fans' angle these are the people bringing in a sizeable wad to the club. So why the hell any SPL club seems to get into its head they "need" Rangers is beyond belief - and there's no denying a lot of it is the propaganda they've been fed by the media up here for decades, combined with the number of "closet" OF fans in all too many board rooms. It's long overdue the time Scottish football manned up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 This is it. The simple truth is parents are reluctant to take their children to games if the Old Firm are there, because of the hate and bile that comes with them - and because of the very real fear of their children getting hurt. And it's the people with kids that spend an absolute fortune in the club shop, club catering, etc - the very people they don't want scared away on match days because quite aside from the 'future fans' angle these are the people bringing in a sizeable wad to the club. So why the hell any SPL club seems to get into its head they "need" Rangers is beyond belief - and there's no denying a lot of it is the propaganda they've been fed by the media up here for decades, combined with the number of "closet" OF fans in all too many board rooms. It's long overdue the time Scottish football manned up. These 2 paragraphs say it all. Saying why Rangers should be punished for their wrong doing, but also identifying the basis of Scottish football creating a better (and more successful) future for itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.