GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Surely there is some legal recourse though Nizzy? Surely you can't just walk away from a liability that big - bigger than all the assets owned by the club. If it was possible then companies everywhere would operate in the exact same manner and just walk away from their debts. Tax avoidance prosecutions on a corporate level appear in the courts far more frequently than you think. In most of the successful prosecutions it leads to some person or other being barred from being a director for a period of time but the loss to HMRC is still there whether it be 20p/£ or 90p/£. Once the Administrators unload the pre-package Whyte get his (or a portion of) his dough, settles HIS tax liability (the tax accrued during HIS ownership) and is offski, with an order telling him he can't be a director of a company for another x years - big deal. The tax debt against the now defunct company is gone because there is nothing left to sell to recover it. HMRC............The Costa Concordia of Taxation Collection 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWatt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That means there is no chance of a CVA without HMRC's blessing. Whatever lessons need to be learned from previous examples, HMRC will have done so. Today we are a step closer to the world's largest jelly and ice cream street party. Hopefully Thatcher joins them 6 feet under to make the occasion truly unique. Pleasing. While CVA may not be possible without HMRC's agreement. Whyte need not follow that route. The company can enter into a pre-packaged agreement with another party to sell the assets of the club and HMRC can do little about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Whoever the administrator is, they have to act in the best interests of the creditors (not the club). If they don't, then their position will be challenged and a court will appoint their own. You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, just last year Dundee managed to appoint a stooge who kept on a stack of players they couldn't afford, as it was the best thing for the club's league position. I'd presume the sums involved in the Rangers tax case would sharpen HMRC's mind to this practice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginge123 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Magnificent gesture from Sone Alukos village in Nigeria. They have just donated a set of football strips to Rangers. ... I hope you're not being serious. Sone Aluko's "village in Nigeria" is Hounslow. In England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 A New Co Rangers can't simply have assets transfered to them by Rangers. The assets (i.e. Ibrox etc) can only be bought. As has happened in real business many times, these assets can be bought at reduced values due to their lack of appeal for anyone else to buy. (Many industries conduct this through auctions). Therefore, a New Co Rangers could theoretically only dodge the tax bill entirely and still waltz into the league, by having zero assets. They would then have to try to buy back, or rent Ibrox (which would have been retained as an asset of the company about to be wound up, with the intention of selling on to assist in payment of creditors). That's spot on. Ignore the term 'pre-pack' I used earlier - any such agreement would have been concluded the moment (or very close to it) the club went into administration. They'll be looking for a quick sale of assets, probably to a company owned by Whyte - one that beats the remaining sanction deadlines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Not looking to be a FunSucker here fellas but please...... read the WHOLE THREAD...... What Whyte has done today is going to BENEFIT Rangers in the long term He, or more importantly his lawyers, have outwitted the cretins at HMRC who were looking to make an example of a football club and the way they circumvent tax law in this country. In adopting this shit or bust approach they have ended up with the distinct possibility of having to eat a shite sandwich. Rangers are not done. In whatever form you see it, they WILL be back.... The SPL cant have it any other way.... fact. Now - I need to go take a shower - I feel dirty.... Is there any obligation on Whyte to ensure the survival of Rangers? It would seem to be the opposite of his track record. He's built his wealth by buying struggling companies, hiving off whatever assets he can, sometimes legally, and leaving the other creditors shafted and the business defunct. I don't see why this should progress any differently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, just last year Dundee managed to appoint a stooge who kept on a stack of players they couldn't afford, as it was the best thing for the club's league position. I'd presume the sums involved in the Rangers tax case would sharpen HMRC's mind to this practice. Didn't they also refuse cash offers for players? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You are fooling no one I'm afraid. Your contributions to this thread have oozed Creamdom. Honestly !???? You off your medication again ? Sorry if my input has awoken you from your wet dream but hey - reality bites - ask David Thompson of the HMRC legal dept. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Is there any obligation on Whyte to ensure the survival of Rangers? It would seem to be the opposite of his track record. He's built his wealth by buying struggling companies, hiving off whatever assets he can, sometimes legally, and leaving the other creditors shafted and the business defunct. I don't see why this should progress any differently. I referred to this earlier as the main reason why Rangers supporters should be concerned. Sure, Whyte is taking a gamble, but not with his own money/house/job, or even his reputation, as that is fucked already. Edited February 14, 2012 by Drooper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DundeeFC92 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Didn't they also refuse cash offers for players? No, we accepted a £10,000 offer for Leighton McIntosh but he decided he didn't want to enter contract negotiations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Is there any obligation on Whyte to ensure the survival of Rangers? It would seem to be the opposite of his track record. He's built his wealth by buying struggling companies, hiving off whatever assets he can, sometimes legally, and leaving the other creditors shafted and the business defunct. I don't see why this should progress any differently. It also begs the question: if it's that easy and and profitable to do so, why did no other Rangers-supporting businessman touch the club with a bargepole, even at £1? Why did they leave it for Whyte with his baggage? Surely there was a Rangers businessman out there who thought of this masterplan, and wanted to clear the debt? Edited February 14, 2012 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That's spot on. Ignore the term 'pre-pack' I used earlier - any such agreement would have been concluded the moment (or very close to it) the club went into administration. They'll be looking for a quick sale of assets, probably to a company owned by Whyte - one that beats the remaining sanction deadlines. Indeed, a quick sale in order to ensure payment of some sort can be made to any creditors. However, legally the administrator is obliged to receive as fair and appropriate a price as possible. If they sold Ibrox for £50 for example, HMRC could challenge the administrators in court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Honestly !???? Yes. Your joy at anything that could possibly mean good news for Rangers in this situation has been unrestrained. As I said, fooling no one with the crocodile tears. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Jag Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 As they did when Celtic managed to ground share there for a season. QP are having to move out for the commonwealth games. QP will be welcomed at Firhill as for the **** FTOF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Taxman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) http://www.bbc.co.uk...otland-17032123 First guy having a "verge of tears" moment.... Edited February 14, 2012 by The Taxman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadénator Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Would the scenario that a few of you are saying will happen (Rangers being liquidated and then being allowed back into the league debt-free) see them losing all their players/stadium etc.? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintie1977 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, just last year Dundee managed to appoint a stooge who kept on a stack of players they couldn't afford, as it was the best thing for the club's league position. I'd presume the sums involved in the Rangers tax case would sharpen HMRC's mind to this practice. Too true. It really sticks with me that any business could get to the point of being £75m in debt to anyone and come to some agreement to pay back a fraction of it. Maybe I'll try that with the taxman next year, "Sorry, I decided to buy a car, house and go on a massive holiday instead of paying my tax bill so I've decided to organise an administrator and give you a tenner, ok? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 David Murray has said he is surprised and disappointed at the decision to enter administration. Surprised? Really??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Is there any obligation on Whyte to ensure the survival of Rangers? It would seem to be the opposite of his track record. He's built his wealth by buying struggling companies, hiving off whatever assets he can, sometimes legally, and leaving the other creditors shafted and the business defunct. I don't see why this should progress any differently. None at all. He is the major secured creditor and as such will be at the head of the queue when the assets are sold. Liquidation. He cares not one jot about how they go about rising phoenix-like from the debris, but they will and the SPL will be pre-eminent in helping that happen because their product is worth far less with just Cellik reaming everybody in a stroll to the umpteenth title. Its shockingly dirty business - but.... that's business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Too true. It really sticks with me that any business could get to the point of being £75m in debt to anyone and come to some agreement to pay back a fraction of it. Maybe I'll try that with the taxman next year, "Sorry, I decided to buy a car, house and go on a massive holiday instead of paying my tax bill so I've decided to organise an administrator and give you a tenner, ok? Sorry - that's personal taxation not corporate... good luck with that plan though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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