Gordon EF Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Much like the union, he won't be around forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: I just can't see Johnson accepting the possibility of being the guy who destroyed the UK. I get where you're coming from but the prestige hit would be devastating for him and the UK internationally. He's already done that with Brexit. What we need is a rise of English nationalism to encourage him, and for the Scottish Government to be as annoying as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: He's already done that with Brexit. What we need is a rise of English nationalism to encourage him, and for the Scottish Government to be as annoying as possible. Abstractly maybe but we're still to all intents and purposes a United Kingdom with the kayfabe of being significant in the world. You can't even point to losing Ireland in 1922, imo, given the British Empire was still the largest empire on the planet. There's nothing to cushion the blow and it's a serious loss of face. The boundary changes coming up will do the job that losing Scotland would probably do for the Tories perpetual hegemony anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcor Roar Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Starting a crowdfund for a statue of eck salmond to be erected on that plinth at Andrews square once Indy happens just to annoy the gammon boomers. Should have him wearing a dressing gown with no trousers on while smoking a cigar for maximum seeth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 mmm all dem polling results all dem Yes's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Abstractly maybe but we're still to all intents and purposes a United Kingdom with the kayfabe of being significant in the world. You can't even point to losing Ireland in 1922, imo, given the British Empire was still the largest empire on the planet. There's nothing to cushion the blow and it's a serious loss of face. The boundary changes coming up will do the job that losing Scotland would probably do for the Tories perpetual hegemony anyway. The only 'face' that the UK Government is concerned about is its place on the UN Security Council and in the G7. Both of these will be under real threat anyway post-Brexit, so no-one in Scotland should worry overly much about loss of Empire or prestige. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Unionism is now the preserve of an extreme minority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 YES at 55% United back in the Premiership. I’ve not died from COVID (yet). This is shaping up to be a good time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Enigma said: Yeah there’s no chance of Boris consenting to a referendum. 2 hours ago, NotThePars said: I just can't see Johnson accepting the possibility of being the guy who destroyed the UK. I get where you're coming from but the prestige hit would be devastating for him and the UK internationally. Probably right enough, and I wonder what the SNP and Greens can really do. UDI is fanciful, unsanctioned consultative referendum probably not worth the effort. Wonder as well that if there's polling showing significant and consistent shifts to Yes (and it looks like we're finally there), what on earth can the Lib Dems + Labour in Scotland do about it? Surely almost every single Scottish constituency for the next decade of elections are going to be a straight shootout between the SNP + Conservative Party of Great British Staunchness, with the rest just going through the motions. I love the idea of a Labour face turn in all of this; split up and form a new Scottish Labour party, back yes and get wild cheers. Falls down a bit in that they'd kind of have to promise a Labour win down south to get a referendum delivered which isn't a great look but I mean f**k, if nothing else it means they'd be laying the ground work to have a party mechanism set up and ready to compete at post-Indy elections with better face recognition, time to work through teething problems and being proactive rather than reactive about it. The alternative of trying to outstaunch the Tories and most likely failing over and over again doesn't look like it leaves them with much to lose anyway. I really don't want to get my hopes up because it was shite last time around, but maybe we'll get to see an independent Scotland within the next several years. Edited August 19, 2020 by Thistle_do_nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Surely the Yoons will respect democracy? Who cares they are in the minority.Tick fucking tock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Armed insurrection is the answer. Totally justified if democratic aspirations are ignored. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Probably right enough, and I wonder what the SNP and Greens can really do. UDI is fanciful, unsanctioned consultative referendum probably not worth the effort. Wonder as well that if there's polling showing significant and consistent shifts to Yes (and it looks like we're finally there), what on earth can the Lib Dems + Labour in Scotland do about it? Surely almost every single Scottish constituency for the next decade of elections are going to be a straight shootout between the SNP + Conservative Party of Great British Staunchness, with the rest just going through the motions. I love the idea of a Labour face turn in all of this; split up and form a new Scottish Labour party, back yes and get wild cheers. Falls down a bit in that they'd kind of have to promise a Labour win down south to get a referendum delivered which isn't a great look but I mean f**k, if nothing else it means they'd be laying the ground work to have a party mechanism set up and ready to compete at post-Indy elections with better face recognition, time to work through teething problems and being proactive rather than reactive about it. The alternative of trying to outstaunch the Tories and most likely failing over and over again doesn't look like it leaves them with much to lose anyway. I really don't want to get my hopes up because it was shite last time around, but maybe we'll get to see an independent Scotland within the next several years.Would labour voters automatically become pro Indy if the party officially adopted that stance ? Seems the assumption is they would but that seems bizarre to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: 1 hour ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: Probably right enough, and I wonder what the SNP and Greens can really do. UDI is fanciful, unsanctioned consultative referendum probably not worth the effort. Wonder as well that if there's polling showing significant and consistent shifts to Yes (and it looks like we're finally there), what on earth can the Lib Dems + Labour in Scotland do about it? Surely almost every single Scottish constituency for the next decade of elections are going to be a straight shootout between the SNP + Conservative Party of Great British Staunchness, with the rest just going through the motions. I love the idea of a Labour face turn in all of this; split up and form a new Scottish Labour party, back yes and get wild cheers. Falls down a bit in that they'd kind of have to promise a Labour win down south to get a referendum delivered which isn't a great look but I mean f**k, if nothing else it means they'd be laying the ground work to have a party mechanism set up and ready to compete at post-Indy elections with better face recognition, time to work through teething problems and being proactive rather than reactive about it. The alternative of trying to outstaunch the Tories and most likely failing over and over again doesn't look like it leaves them with much to lose anyway. I really don't want to get my hopes up because it was shite last time around, but maybe we'll get to see an independent Scotland within the next several years. Would labour voters automatically become pro Indy if the party officially adopted that stance ? Seems the assumption is they would but that seems bizarre to me. The party will go to war before that face turn happens. It's seriously divided internally on the issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 SLAB will have to get off the fence eventually. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Unionists can reverse the trend in the polls if they just keep insulting pro-independence voters and aggressively sharing Kevin Hague graphs on social media, IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Also, MOAR FLEGS !! Slap the UJ on everything, that'll make us forget about independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: SLAB will have to get off the fence eventually. They are off the fence. Unfortunately it's on the shit side where they're living in the windowless basement and being charged extortionate rent. Spoiler don't know if this analogy works welcome all feedback 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 The Little Britons seem to be coalescing around the “but Scotland won’t have a currency” line from 2014. It’s a tricky one for the Yes sides because those same UK nats don’t actually give a shit which currency an independent Scotland would use; they just want to be given a concrete target to shoot at from now until any future ballot. However, not giving an answer to the currency question also makes the independence argument look weaker than it is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 The Little Britons seem to be coalescing around the “but Scotland won’t have a currency” line from 2014. It’s a tricky one for the Yes sides because those same UK nats don’t actually give a shit which currency an independent Scotland would use; they just want to be given a concrete target to shoot at from now until any future ballot. However, not giving an answer to the currency question also makes the independence argument look weaker than it is.I don't give a shit which currency we use. A yes vote has always been bigger than all the little details. Fact is all the options are viable. No doubt a currency union in the short term is the most stable for both the UK and Scotland whether both parties agree on it or not who cares ? No one knows what will happen until negotiates are finished but you'll still get roasters demanding a 1000 bullet points of exactly what will happen after a yes vote. People that continually bang on about currency are the absolute worst c***s. I'm not sure that approach will work this time. I'll be more than happy to find out though whenever that is. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Pie and Bovril mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, NotThePars said: They are off the fence. Unfortunately it's on the shit side where they're living in the windowless basement and being charged extortionate rent. Reveal hidden contents don't know if this analogy works welcome all feedback I genuinely hope they pick Murray for leader. And he turns up to the presser in the UJ suit. A perfect analogy for the last 10 years. Giving your analogy 7/10. May have to downgrade if I discover you're from less desirable neighbourhood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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